Home Organization Tips from a Mother of 16
The Duggar family just had their 16th child yesterday. Wondering why they have such a large family? Click here. I love to read testimonies like this!
For those of you wondering how to keep your little brood in order, I thought you would enjoy reading tips from Mrs. Duggar on how she runs their family household:
Hat-Tip: Mrs. Happy Housewife
For those of you wondering how to keep your little brood in order, I thought you would enjoy reading tips from Mrs. Duggar on how she runs their family household:
Hat-Tip: Mrs. Happy Housewife
posted by Crystal Paine at 7:21 PM
23 Comments:
My mom and I saw this story on yahoo news last night and we got to talking. I have never known a family with more than 4 kids. My mother- a public school teacher, did teach children from a family with 12 kids. However they were nothing like this family, they were almost entirely dependant on welfare as the mother didn't work and the father only worked part-time in lawn care. They could have never homeschooled, they couldn't even afforded book bags to send their kids to public school with. Things were pretty sad. My mom semi kept up with one of the girls she taught and said she is doing pretty well though. Unfortunately I'm afraid examples like the Duggar, who seem to have it together more than typical families with 2 kids, are less common than girl's family my mom taught.
I’ve been thinking about the story a lot. I got to thinking about how the media would never had a story praising a poor mother or welfare mother for having 16 kids. People would have been angry.
If anyone is interested, the Discovery channel is having a program about a woman with 18 children soon.
I read the links you provided to the Duggar family posts. They certainly sound like a happy family who provide wonderful care to their children. BUT (with apologies up front for shifting the discussion back to my pet issues):
I think large families like this raise interesting questions regarding a mother's role. It is accepted wisdom in many circles that children are best served by a mother who stays at home rather than a mother who places them in an institutionalized day care setting. But when mother has 16 children, doesn't the family itself start to resemble day care? The main benefit I received as the child of a stay-at-home-mom was constant, individualized attention-- but clearly this degree of maternal involvement in my life would not have been possible if I had had fifteen brothers and sisters.
I do not intend to criticize the Duggar family-- they seem like wonderful people who are doing a great thing. But I think the idealization of a fruitful stay-at-home mother is at odds with the criticism of women who place their children in day care. This contradiction reinforces my belief that telling women to stay home has little to do with what is best for children-- and more to do with limiting women's ability to participate in public life "just because."
"But when mother has 16 children, doesn't the family itself start to resemble day care? "
Jessica just made a great point about that on her blog saying that even daycares have rules about the adults the children ratio.
*adults to children ratio.
I live near a semi-cult (I call them that because they have a very unorthodox view of different things in Scripure and keep to themselves.) They are called Apostolic Lutheran and regularly have 10+ kids. My sisters good friend belongs to them an she is a family of 13. This is considered very normal. The most children I have heard of is 15. AL are also always from Finnish decent. As far as I know they usually aren't dependent on the state but take care of their own poor. There are some very wealthy ones who run construction businesses and supply jobs to the poorer.
I disagree that having a large family is the same as daycare. Mommy and older siblings are taking care the little ones not nursery workers. There are also various ages of children in large families like this. They are not all daycare age. I am sure the little ones get plenty of one on one attention from their older siblings. My sister's AL friend is very active in helping her mom take care of the younger ones. She is like a second mom. They all call her sis.
It is a very foreign idea for people to rap their head around couples having this many kids. It used to be pretty normal. Did you know that Susanna Wesley had 23 children? Because of the childhood illnesses, not all survived to adulthood. Before birth control this happened.
One thing I am glad to see is that they are having their children because they want them. A lot of AL have a lot of children because it is expected of them. A lot of moms are very unhappy and beaten down. They don't seem to have the joy of Christ in them.
-Zan
" It used to be pretty normal."
Oh yes, that was very much the case. My great-grand mother had 15. But she was also miserable a lot. She had a drunken husband and all but 1 daughter ran away because of abuse. My grandmother only had 3 kids and they were still very poor but had more health care and education than before. My mother only had 2. I think people realized to have a better quality of life you can’t usually have a dozen kids.
All that said, I said I’m pro-choice and I meant it. Really, anyone should be able to have 16 kids if they want. I don’t agree with it, but they have every right in this world to have as many or a little children as they want.
Thanks for the article link, Crystal! I recently enjoyed seeing the special on the Duggars that was filmed when they were expecting #15. What a great testimony they have and what a great way to generationally build Christ's kingdom! I love hearing stories like the Duggars. I may just have to blog on this later today. . .
Ash:
I had to chuckle that you've never known a family with more than 4 kids; you obviously did not grow up homeschooled :), which I already knew. . .
As a homeschool alumnus I've known many many large families :), and I think the Duggars who "have it together" are certainly not the exception in the homeschool community.
Zan: Good post. Nice defense of the "daycare" situation. They have a much nicer ratio than daycares, counting in the older siblings. Plus care by a mother is so much more personal than by a daycare worker, regardless of the ratio.
I did bring up the laws about daycares, because I thought it relevant. Daycare or not, it is a similar situation, only you are entrusting minor children to watch over other minor children. I saw the special too, and it almost seemed someone sad that these children had to take on the responsibility of caring for other children, and weren't exposed to a situation that gave them individual encouragement, guidance, and attention. Sadly, it almost made me think of a litter of farm puppies my grandfather's dog had some years back. There were 11, and the mother didn't possess the resources to tend to them all, and three ended up dying. I know that these children aren't dying, but in some sense, I'm sure their needs and potential aren't being met.
My best friend was an RA in the dorms at his University, and had a guy that came from a large family like this. He took on a job to be able to live in a single room, and always wanted to be left alone. He had no aspirations to get married or have children, he just wanted to pursue life for and by himself. He was one of the oldest and was always responsible for his siblings, and never got to be his own person.
"you obviously did not grow up homeschooled"
Definitely not. My father and mother are pretty much against the practice.
I knew two homeschool families both with 2 kids each. I believe between the 4 kids 3 did ended up in public school in highschool, so you probably wouldn’t consider them reflective of the average homeschool families.
Look, it doesn't matter if you have 20 children ir 1. If you don't have a loving healthy family the kids are going to have a tough time. You should not blame the harsh life on the number of children and the difficulty of supplying their needs. My husband, as I have mentioned before, is the youngest of ten. His father only made 25,000 a year. That isn't very much. Having a father as a pastor the church provided health insurance and a home. However, try to get ten kids through college. Amazingly 8 made it through college and have good healthy life. The other two started their own businesses.No of them were neglected. Siblings took care of each other. If you ask any of my siblings in law they will all say they had a wonderful childhood and don't regret their parents decision to keep the womb open to whatever God would give them. This family worked out so well because the family unit was strong. That is why the Dubber family is doing so well. The marriage is obviously strong. If you did a special on one of the Apostolic Lutheran Families you would probably not get a good opinion of them because they are a cult and have a warped man domineering view of marriage. Not all AL families are like this but quite a few are.
Botton line: If you don't have a strong marriage and family you won't have positive results in most cases.
BTW, why don't you guys read A Chistmas Carol? Did the Cratchet's really seem that upset that they had so many mouth's to feed? They were poor but they had the love of each other. They had a strong family unit. Do you think Mrs. Cratchet regretted any of her children?
Do you think that the Waltons were nuts. I bring up fictional character but I know real life Waltons and Cratchets. Many of them probably visit this site. My husband was a Walton in a way.
-Zan
Oh, Ash, I was homeschooled 6th grade and up. I only have two sisters. Not all homeschoolers have a zillion kids. We did it for religious and educational reasons. VT is quite the weird state and there was a lot of garbage being taught. They were also combining classrooms and making the students into guinney pigs. They were trying something new. VT is very New Age and like to try new things. Our school was fine academically and was a reasonable rich school. My opinion is if something ain't broke don't fix it. But the elite hippies from Boston new better than us country hicks. They also practiced meditation and eastern religions in gym. So much for seperation of church and state. Because of one Jewish family in the school they took Christmas out of the school. Those are just some of the reasons my parents chose homeschooling initially.
I tell you all this to because you should not form a negative opinion on homeschooling based on a few weird cases that you have seen. I think it is much more logical to form a negative opinion of public schools that have much more evidence of failure.
-Zan
Zan sais: "They don't seem to have the joy of Christ in them."
Zan is right on with this comment! Without the love of Christ we as mothers would be miserable! This is also why I feel so many families today (large or small) are miserable.
I have to respectfully disagree with you Jessica on the daycare scenario. A daycare worker could never love any of my children as much as I do, nor completely fulfill and know their needs. I only have 6 children, which the oldest is 15 yo and the youngest is 15 mos. My 3 yo son, absolutely adores the 15 yo daughter! A sibling will love a younger sibling much better than a daycare worker could anytime, plus know them a lot better. It's not a number/ratio problem when it comes to large families. It's about love and Christ. The Duggars have both, which is why their family is so strong.
Barbara, mom to 6 wonderful blessings and praying for more!
I don't like the idea that this women is having kids, knowing that their siblings will be responsible for the bulk of their day to day needs. Can the mother attend to the needs of ALL 16 children alone. No. I changed diapers for my mother, but never was I as responsible for my brothers as these kids are for their siblings. That far surpasses biting off more than you can chew.
I'm a patient person, families with 6 kids, sure, but not 16. That's essentially 1 child per year since that couple has been married.
“I tell you all this to because you should not form a negative opinion on homeschooling based on a few weird cases that you have seen.”
I’ve never said I have a negative view of homeschool. I said my parents don’t believe in it. My view is neutral.
“I tell you all this to because you should not form a negative opinion on homeschooling based on a few weird cases that you have seen.”
It would have been easier financially, emotional, and physically if great-grandmother had fewer children. They would have had an improved quality of life. I say quality over quantity.
I'm with Jessica on this one. Also, I'm worried about safe transportation for people with large families. Are they riding 16 kids around in an ’87 van with broke seat belts, no AC, and no airbags?
Poor reproductive planning can be a disaster. It wasn’t for me, but only because my parents helped. I say wait until you have more than enough money before you start having kids. No, things will never be 100% perfect, but how about 90%? Space your kids out so they aren't coming out one right after another. Make sure you can afford start a college fund. Make sure you have safe, reliable transportation. Wait to make sure the woman isn’t going to have PPD before she gets pregnant again.
If you want to have a large family, fine....but PLEASE make sure you train your children to be good and productive members of society....you don't have a right to produce a whole 'quiver full' of children and then make the rest of us have to pay (through welfare) to raise them. Also, we had a family in our Church who believed this way....they were up to 3 children and to be honest we were ALL praying that they didn't have anymore because they couldn't handle the ones they had!!--I'm sorry to say that all 3 of their children were brats! We were all subjected to screaming temper tantrums WEEKLY(at Church) and this couple was not teachable. They thought they were doing just fine.
I've never been against people having large families but 16 does seem like a lot! I dont' see how you could know them as individuals. I know 100 years ago people had lots of kids but sadly most of them died....so the Mother wasn't usually having to raise 16 at one time.
Ash, my husband parents were not able to help with college for any of their children and yet, 8 of the 10 got degrees on their own. My husband worked his way through college. It is a misconception that parents should pay for all their children's college.
Sorry about accusing you of having a negative view on homeschoolers. I misread your post. However, people who do have such a view shouldn't be so quick to judge based on a few examples. Also, not every woman gets PPD with her babies. As a nurse, I don't dismiss PPD. I was blue for a few days after having George. It was nice because I had the support of my family, especially my husband.
To anonymous: it sounds like that family needs some family counceling or something. There is a family i our church that only has two kids and they are animals and run in church. I might be old fashioned here but kids should not be running in church. They are also rude and disrespectful.
If you have bad parents you are going to have bad kids. It doesn't matter how many you have.
-Zan
Zan...the family was offered MUCH counselling but didn't heed what they were told...and yet they wanted MORE children. Again, I don't have a problem with large families but if you aren't going to train your children to be nice, respectful and well-behaved I don't think you should have them. It's not fair to the rest of us. I have run across people with the 'quiver-full' belief and their attitude has been 'it doesn't matter how my kids behave, you have to just put up with it.'
~~Mrs. B~~ (I forgot to sign my last post (o: )
I'm from a "larger than normal" family by modern statistics, but both my parents are from large, traditionally Catholic families and there would have been even more of us had God willed it. I don't think that huge families like the Duggar's involve any kind of "lack of attention", nor do I think that kids rely upon tons of individual attention from their parents specifically. Being homeschooled in any case makes for a lot of parent-child interactive time that would otherwide be spent in the institutional setting of public school. It's rather worldly-culture-centric to say that small families are "better" for a child. Equating more affluence with a "better" quality of life is also classist. The quality of the family community should count for much more, not the family's size.
The Duggars fascinate me- they really seem to be comfortable in their way of living and even though I don't identify with them much (no Mother Hubbard dresses and tater tot casserole for me, thanks!), I think they're really neat people. Does anyone know if Discovery Health will be releasing the two documentaries on DVD? I don't have cable-
I fail to see why it is wrong to grow up having to care for your younger brothers and sisters?
If you read the Duggar's website you see she has someone that helps her out with laundry and housework. It does not sound from their schedule that the children are drudges that care for children all day. It sounds more like the mother worked harder to teach the younger ones how to play happily on their own while she was busy with something else. The girls cook dinner at a young age as did I! I love to cook! I learned to cook because my mom felt it was a shame that she did not know how to cook when she married.
I guess I simply do not see what harm there is in working hard as a young child to be part of a family. I know families who use many of the same methods as the Duggar's implement and have large happy families that are producing the next congressmen and leaders of our country. They know how to work hard from their youth up and will not be lazy not providing for their familiies.
Our home was not run like a daycare. The only time it resembled one has been since we got older and had children of our own and we all get together! My brother and sister wored at one for a time! By the way, my family was poor, but so far 2 have college degrees and the third is working towards it and the others are not old enough. I do not have one, myself, by choice.
You made some really good points Martha!
~~Mrs. B``
I know I'm late to this party, but I have some thoughts to share:
Why a large family is like neither a litter nor a preschool:
In litters and preschools children are all the same age and they all join the group at once.
In a family, most of the time children come one at a time (multiples are an exception, as are adoptions of sibling groups).
The children in families are different ages- years separate the oldest and youngest. Even preschools separate the 3 and 4 year olds.
Daycares have rules about adult/child ratios, and they also have rules about fire alarm drills and menu planning and the use of diapers (many won't permit cloth diapers) and schedules- because they are not a family. They are businesses with totally different operational needs. Just because a daycare has a rule doesn't make it a good standard for family living.
I think it's interesting that it bothers people that the Duggers use this buddy-up system to help things run more smoothly- because public schools use it, too. They will team a pair of kids together on a field trip or in the classroom and those two are supposed to stick together and look out for each other- this is considered good for them. Not sure why it's different in a family.
Public schools will also assign brighter kids to help tutor slower kids- perhaps by reading books to little kids or having faster kids do flashcards and drills with the slower kids- it's considered a bonus, supposedly it helps the older kid solidify his/her own learning while helping the other child and it's supposed to be good for both kids. Being related does not evaporate these benefits.
I've done home daycare in my home before. I was a conscientious, loving, careful, caregiver. I wanted to do the best job I could. Yet still, I did not do as good a job caring for other people's children as I did my own.
With my own babies my arms would actually start to ache if I hadn't held them recently enough- I *needed* to get get my babies and hold them. With other people's babies I had to consciously remind myself to do simple things like just sit and cuddle with them often through the day. I wrote down everything I did with them during the day so that I could be sure I wasn't negelecting some area of their care- I don't mean the basics like food, diapers, and soothing them when they cried- I mean the 'extras' that most mommies do without thinking about it- (Sing to the baby, check; sit and snuggle with the baby and read a book, check; play this little piggie, check). I never needed to *think* about it to be sure I did these things with my own children. I just did them.
I know children in one and two child families who have less free time than my seven because those children's lives are scheduled down to the second between public school, karate, music lessons, sports, art, Brownies, 4-H, etc- what free time they have is wasted in front of the television.
Driving- we drive a 15 passenger van with fully functioning seatbelts, heat, and air conditioning. Not sure why air conditioning is so vital- plenty of parts of the country have temperate climates, and I've lived without A.C. in a vehicle before.
Other families we know drive two vehicles when they go somewhere all together.
And finally, the quality of our lives is not based on the number of things we own, the fanciness of our clothes or our toys, and the number of outside activities we participate in. It's based on the relationships we have with one another, and, to be honest, I'll take our life quality over that of most people I know who have three times our disposable income and less than half the number of children.=)
"And God gave to Heman fourteen sons and three daughters." (I Chronicles 25:5)
"Obed-edom had eight sons "for God blessed him." (I Chronicles 26:4, 5"
http://www.valerieslivingbooks.com/heritage.htm for a lengthy list of scriptures.
God requires fruitfulness, God designed man and woman, marriage, and sex for the purpose of building and producing children for His Kingdom. God is in control of the womb and God declares all children to be a blessing from Him, while barreness is almost always a curse from Him for disobediance.
Not one person here who was against large families gave an ounce of scripture to back up their position. They gave only anecdotal stories and emotionally driven responses. This is not the way we are called by God to approach life. We are to seek His Word about everything.
I have debated this position for years and not once have I had a person who could come up with a solid biblical rebuttal against my position and in favor of birth control - they are always anecdotal and emotional responses.
The Church today despises large families and children, it uses abortive birth controls at the same rate as our pagen counterparts, and we have blood on our hands. More children die in the wombs of supposed "pro-life Christian" women every year in America than have *ever* died on a surgical table from abortion. Wake up!!!
Birth control, up until the last 100 years, was considered by all of Christiandom to be morally evil. Only pagens who worshiped false god and adulterous and loose men and women practiced birth control. Until Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood and a known racist and Eugenicist and anti-Christ, developed a plan to bring birth control into the poorer black churches in order to rid the human race of "weeds" and the "unfit" and destroy the Church of Christ and we bought this garbage hook, line, and sinker because we were ashamed as Christian women of the gospel of Jesus Christ and His Word to us and the role He has given us.
Return to the Word. Repent of the blood on your hands and *then* if you can come up with a valid and wholly biblical argument against large families and in favor of birth control, let me know.
Nickey Haywood
fruitfulmomma@aol.com
Just a comment (with love) to Zan's point concerning AL and large families. For me, calling a group 'semi-cult', arguing that they are "having a lot of children because it is expected of them", "a lot of moms are very unhappy and beaten down" or "they don't seem to have the joy of Christ in them" sounds like a very disparaging and prejudiced approach. Being a member of a church quite similar to AL (although not in US), hearing these kind of comments from other Christians (who share the same point of view regarding this children topic) really hurts me quite a lot. To be honest I do not think it is very Biblical to say these kind of things esp. if you do not know anyone personally or haven't discussed with them about the topic.
Love, kanga
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