A Libertarian?
What do you think of this article?
Thanks to blog reader, Cheryl, for sending it to me to post. She said:
Thanks to blog reader, Cheryl, for sending it to me to post. She said:
I think it makes some really great points as to why the government isn't our "Master" as some people on the blog think it should be. I also think he makes great points in explaining why thinking from a Biblical point of view is much more logical and just than the worldly view so many Christians (and non-Christians, too) take. It would make some people think - I think.
posted by Crystal Paine at 2:11 PM
17 Comments:
Yup, this is good stuff.
I would only add two things:
1) The Christian's primary political community is the Church. Thus in as much as Christians engage in the external politics and culture, they do only as alien ambassadors for the alternative Kingdom of Jesus Christ, the Church, which is "not of this world." A Christian is a Christian regarding political activity, period.
2) As such a citizen of Christ's alternative Kingdom, Christians need to conduct their lives en toto according to the CHURCH's interpretation of Scripture, not their own individual readings. Just as nations have a law, so does the Church- and having been derived from Scripture, its laws are not "subject to private interpretation." Lots of evil and liberal political doctrines purport to be "derived from Scripture..."
MM: What "Church" are you referring to? I would disagree with that point as I don't see in Scripture where we are to be subject to a church or a church's interpretation of Scripture. We are to seek the Lord, through the direction of our husband/father. A church is not to dictate what we believe. If we are a part of a church, we are placing ourself under that church leadership and yes, we should be subject to that authority (the elder is "worthy of double-honor"), but only so long as they are following the Lord. We are not to ever follow a man or a church above the Lord.
I really do not want to get into a big debate over theology here. This is not the forum for that. Fathers and husbands should be leading wives concerning theology and each family needs to seek the Lord for themselves. That said, I did want to point out my disagreement with the said statement.
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... I was referring to the Church which Jesus refers to in Matthew 16-18, and to which Paul refers in I and II Corinthians, Colossionas, Ephesians, etc... the Church to which even husbands and fathers are subject, according to I Tim 3:15...
From my study of Scripture, this is what I believe:
Scripture is clear that God is to be the head of the husband and the husband is the head of the wife. Husbands/fathers are not subject to a church over God.
There are two definitions of church -- one which means an actual congregation and one which means the whole congregation of Christians worldwide. Christ should be the head of both. But, we should never look to a man, a minister, a pastor, or an elder over God.
Churches are fallible because they are made up of fallible people and led by fallible people who are seeking to be led by the infallible Word of God.
God and His Word should always be our Guidebook first and foremost.
MM, you are welcome to email me privately if you disagree, but I'd rather not debate theology on this blog. :) Thanks!
Back to original discussion... :)
I liked this quote from the article:
"In my worldview, liberty is defined as the freedom to exercise God-given rights according to the moral laws of God. The moral laws of God provide us with the necessary presuppositions for things like “unalienable rights” to exist."
Well, living in MT there are plenty of people that are like that. They are loggers, gun toting, would generally agree with being sort of a being anti-government.
I though think that you should obey the government as long as it does not go against God even when they are wrong.
What exactly is "anti-government"? Define that for me.:-)
The government we have as of this point in time is a government that is completely off the mark regarding the original intent of what the founding fathers intended for our new nation.
Also too, what do you mean by "gun toting"? Do you mean that they carry a weapon around in their trucks?
"I though think that you should obey the government as long as it does not go against God even when they are wrong." How can they NOT go against God when they are wrong in the first place?? Expand on that a little.
I've been dying to read and opine but am rushing around too much lately. I've only skimmed the article and I don't have time right now to really respond except for a couple of minor points:
-- I think he is mistaken when he says libertarians are anti-government. I would say that libertarians are very much in favor of the government. I have family members involved in Libertarian Party politics, and I would say that libertarians believe in having a strong but limited government to protect individual liberties. The anti-government folks are anarchists, not libertarians.
-- I also think that he is confusing a libertarian political view with a libertarian moral view. There is a difference between saying "I don't think the government should intervene if someone wants to waste his or her life smoking pot all day," and saying "I think it's morally okay for someone to waste his or her life smoking pot all day." I believe the former but I don't believe the latter.
-- And of course I have lots of things to say about his fundamental thesis but aaaah -- I really have to run.
Well, people in Montana in the majority have a strange sense of humor. There are postcards we circulate with humor on them that most people may not understand. One example of this is something my dad sent me about a Montana survior TV program. The first one to make it around MT alive wins.
>Each will be driving a pink Volvo with California license plates and
>large bumper stickers that read:
-I'm a Vegetarian.
-Hillary in 2008.
-Deer hunting is murder.
And ... I'm here to confiscate your guns.
Now, of course that is getting carried away.....but the guns comment is a big one. There are several militia groups here and my dad had one man who was a leader as a computer customer. When he visited our office one time complete with scanners etc and a helicopter began to circle the house we were not impressed. This group violently opposed the government and was jailed for their actions. (This is what I mean abot general anti-government attitudes)
The Randy Weaver case was also less than an hour from our house and we were present at the Memorial service (actually the children were not, but stayed in the house)
I think the government was wrong in the case of Randy Weaver and made big mistakes, but also I do think he had made some huge mistakes (having a inside scoop on him) and was not a very safe person, but still that didn't give them a right to shoot and kill.
Yes, there is a rifle or 2 in many peoples back windows here.
I think that we should obey the government as long as it is not against God's laws...even if they are wrong.
Meaning...it may not be right that we are paying Income taxes..but the Roman government probably shouldn't have been charging taxes either and the incident with the fish and the Temple Tax that Jesus spoke on (Matt 17:24-27)
I do not see that it is violating God's laws to have a drivers license, have liability insurance on your car, keep your cars current, hunting out of hunting season,...but I know people who do not do that as they say that it is not required. They have blasphemed the name of God by doing this and have not brought glory to God, but shown themselves to be lawless and disregarding of authority.
I don't know if that makes any sense or explains what I meant. I do not mean to offend anyone....
Also, know I HATE guns, will not allow one near my house...just for my own personal reasons!
Martha,
I totally agree with you. I know some Christians who refuse to get a marriage license because they think it isn't required in the Bible. I think these people make Christians look like nuts. I think it does more harm than good.
Funny you mentioned the Randy Weaver story. I am just learning about it. I am currently reading Ann Coulter's latest book and she has a section about it in it. I guess I missed that story.
When people here what I believe they think that I am a gun happy wacko. I have never even fired a gun. However, since I will be having boys I guess I will have to get used to them. I just better never catch any of them shooting song birds. Actually, we live in town so I better never see them shooting anything around here. I am learning that boys are different than girls by hearing stories of my husband's childhood. I think if my sons did things my husband did I would probably faint.
Yeah, when you live close to a huge case like that you hear more of it than you want to. I was too close to it.
I have 4 boys and when my husband tells me how he was growing up...I shudder! (He is one of 7 boys and 2 girls) I think maybe when they get older then they will learn how to properly use a gun, maybe for hunting. Our family was not into wild game and we all lived very well never owning a gun and we cannot have one around now anyhow....so it works out well for me!
"I am currently reading Ann Coulter's latest book.."
Hi Zan: I am reading a book by her too!....although I'm not sure if it is her latest or not.....I think it is.
quote from Martha A.:
"I think that we should obey the government as long as it is not against God's laws...even if they are wrong. Meaning...it may not be right that we are paying Income taxes..but the Roman government probably shouldn't have been charging taxes either and the incident with the fish and the Temple Tax that Jesus spoke on (Matt 17:24-27)
I do not see that it is violating God's laws to have a drivers license, have liability insurance on your car, keep your cars current, hunting out of hunting season,...but I know people who do not do that as they say that it is not required. They have blasphemed the name of God by doing this and have not brought glory to God, but shown themselves to be lawless and disregarding of authority."
I agree with you Martha A.
quote from Zan:
"I totally agree with you. I know some Christians who refuse to get a marriage license because they think it isn't required in the Bible. I think these people make Christians look like nuts. I think it does more harm than good."
I couldn't agree more Zan!
Mrs.B
I am reading, 'How To Talk To A Liberal (If You Must)'
I have actually been reading it for about a year but I just never find the time to do recreational reading. My son went to bed early so I stayed up until 1am reading it last night. I really enjoy her writing. I'm not 100% in agreement with all of her ideas but she sure isn't afraid to say what she wants about politics, which is relieving. She is saying what a lot of men should be saying but I guess they are too afraid. I guess she gets a lot of death threats from left wing groups too. One thing that really impressed me is how well she knows history. My favorite book by her was 'Slander.' That was when my eyes were opened to how biased the mainstream media really was. Enjoy the book. Maybe I will finish it by years' end. I just finished Harry Potter. Took me about 6-7months and it was pretty easy reading. Life changes when you have a baby.
-Zan
Zan:
Ok, then I am reading her latest because that's what I'm reading too.
She was on Bill O'Reilly's show last night and I only saw part of it but she said there is actually a group of people (on the internet I think) that are saying it would be good if she were raped. I was appalled! I've heard she gets quite a few death threats too...how sad....then liberals try and say conservatives are 'intollerant'...what a joke.
I've been commenting a little bit on Jessica's site(Cellar Door)....but I am coming to the conclusion that it is probably pointless to do so. They (being the people who comment on her blog) like to say mean things (mainly about how stupid we are) and mock us (Jessica posted one of Crystal's posts, awhile back, and they had a field day with it) about Christians and conservatives...but if a Christian or Conservative gives them a small dose of their own medicine or calls them on it, they get all indignant and act like they've been injured in some way. I was just on Anne Coulter's website and she said that's pretty much normal. I do have to give credit where credit is due, so far Happy Feminist's site doesn't seem to be like that. We disagree on MOST things but she doesn't resort to name calling, mocking, or belittling to make her points.
I wish you had a blog, Zan, you always have interesting things to say when you comment. (o:
I saw her on O'Reilly last night, as well. I've commented a few times on Jessica's blog but all I did was fuel their angry fire. I think they are more interested in mocking us than trying to understand us, as they claim. It doesn't surprise me. Didn't Christ say somewhere in John, "They hated me they will hate you."
Awhile back when they were mocking Vision Forum at HF's blog, I had to say something. Didn't Ann say something to the effect, last night, that when liberals cannot formulate an argument they resort to throwing food.
I should start my own blog but I just don't know if I have the time to commit to it. A lot of people have asked and I am flattered though I think you guys would end up being pretty disappointed. Thanks anyway.
No Way Zan...you're selling yourself short....you have a knack for expressing yourself in a simple, plain, common-sense, and interesting way.
And I TOTALLY agree with your statement about Jessica's blog.....it's been interesting but after that particular thread is over, I think I'm done. It takes up too much time and I have better things to do! I just got so SICK of them saying Bush is mentally incompetent and that he's probably still an alcoholic.....it's like you pointed out about what Ann said, when they don't have any truth to talk about they start throwing 'food' in the form of verbal darts. What was so strange to me was that at first I was nice and it seemed to make them contempt me more....then when I got a little more aggressive they were still mad but they seemed to slow down on trying to be-little me so much...go figure.
I read your comments on HF's blog, when they were mocking Vision Forum and I LOVED what you said to them! I was surprised that they didn't respond back to you about it.
Have a great weekend and if you're not going to start a blog then at least keep on commenting....you're a hoot!! (o:
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