Narnia: "Better" or Best?
There has been a lot of hype going around regarding the new movie, Narnia, in the religious community and even among "conservative Christians" (I dislike using that term and labelling people, but you get my drift.). People are talking about it, blogging about it, and passing on the trailers and songtrack clips. Christian and non-Christian stores and companies alike are making lots of money off of anything remotely Narnia or C.S. Lewis related. Everywhere I turn, something or someone is talking about Narnia.So, naturally, Jesse and I have been thinking about it, too. We even thought about going to the theater to see it. Then we thought about it more.
Is it right for Christians to embrace and promote something which contains many pagan elements? Is it right to hold up this movie before our children as a "good movie" when it has fauns and witches in it? Just because something has some supposedly "Christian" elements in it, does that make it okay?
Do we want that which is "okay" or "acceptable" or "better than many other films out there", or do we want that which is best? The verse "Come out from among them and be ye separate" keeps resonating in my ears.
No, I'm not saying you are sinning to watch the movie, I just encourage you to really think about this. I see so many Christians blindly accept and endorse films so long as they seem just a notch better than the usual rubbish films the world gives us.
If you've seen the film or haven't seen the film, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. We're still thinking it through.
posted by Crystal Paine at 2:27 PM
61 Comments:
It is true that Lewis uses characters that are found in mythology and paganism. While the physical appearance might be the same, the characteristics and values are totally different for fauns and centaurs so saying they are the same as in mythology might be a stretch. The witch in LW&W is clearly not a good or moral character and is used to demonstrate and depict selfishness, pride, and greed.
I'm not going to debate whether or not it's okay to use these elements because I'm considering those issues for myself anyway. I just wanted to pass on some facts in that regard.
As far as the marketing and media craze, I'm tired of it all. And I'm tired of Christians making such a big deal out of it.
The movie is not an allegory or an analogy of Christ, but it does contain Christian elements: redemption, forgiveness, grace.
I saw the Narnia movie, and I really liked it. My husband also really liked it, and he's never read any of the books.
I would not ever promote it as being a perfect picture of Christ or anything close to it, but I thought it clearly depicted the ideas I already mentioned, as well as showing that making the right choice is not always the easiest thing to do, and that when we mess up we can be forgiven even though there will still be consequences.
Unlike many other stories, it does not promote the idea that the ends justify the means.
Ok... at last someone who sees my own dilemma! Narnia = ok? Lord of the Rings = ok? Harry Potter = ok?
My husband's buddy (local church pastor) argued and argued that Harry Potter was evil because of the witchcraft... while his own daughters were watching Disney films like Snow White and Cinderella, which include elements of witchcraft. Our contention was that if his beef was with witchcraft, then ALL witchcraft should be considered not just those decried by the Christian radio stations. I have read some of the LOTR series and the Harry Potter series. They both have merits and they both have downsides. My husband gave his 'ok' to my reading of both series.
Crystal, I totally agree with you. It's a confusing issue... do we settle for better or do we strive for the best?
Then again, my husband and I both love the Narnia series. We may or may not see the film (two small boys... we may wait for the dvd).
I think it's a matter of personal conviction and not necessarily a clear cut choice. We should be careful of judging others when we have our own issues. If my husband suggested a datenight that included a trip to see the Narnia movie, I'd go. If he feels we'd best not see it, that's fine too. We don't have any set conviction against movie theaters per se but we do pick and choose our viewing carefully.
No conclusion can be drawn; it's up to each family. Sometimes it's best just to turn the radios off and make up our own minds rather than have the media pundits do it for us.
Susan at 'An Old-Fashioned Girl' had a post about TLW&W...having never read the books I was concerned with anything that had the word 'witch' in the title. I also had concerns over the magic and mythological creatures in it. Anyway, she had some interesting things to say about it all, so if you're interested , check out her blog. I haven't decided yet what I think about it all. I was amused to see that McDonalds now offers toys in their 'happy meals' from TLW&W.
to me it is not a family movie. there are very violent scenes. i remember reawding it in fifth grade in my public school. the movie inmy opinion was not true to teh book. people who had never heard of the book also would not understand many of the things going on in the story. also it was awkward to see children fighting in a battle.
I loved momof2boys comment! Consistency is key...too many Christians in this world accept one thing (Narnia, fairy tales, etc) and reject something similar (HP, LOTR). Not just with literature, but with television shows, clothing, entertainment, books they read, etc. I can't tell you how many blogs I have come across where Christian women are reading very questionable books in the name of "curiosity" or "arming themselves." While I think that we need to be aware of battles we are fighting and be fighting on facts not our presuppositions, we use that reasoning way too often. But...to answer the question, I have not seen the movie, but I did read the entire series several years ago.
One last note...out of the seven books, the last one (The Last Battle) was my favorite. My entire life I have been "afraid" of death and the unknown, even though I consciously know what God has in store for me. After reading The Last Battle, it took away much of my fear or death. It was such a beautiful, calming way in which Lewis depicted death. I'm sure this won't make much sense if you haven't read it...but he focused on the children not realizing that they had passed to a different world because the new world was so much better. I think that is how death will be...anyways...just wanted to add that!!!
I haven't seen the movie or read the book but, from what from the bit I've heard, I don't know why Christians are so consumed with it. To me it doesn't represent what Christ wants our minds to dwell on.
Tonight Bible Study was on Philipians 4:8 & 9, "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you."
Does this movie portray these characteristics which God tells us to think on? Does it encourage thoughts of being just, lovely, pure, etc? I don't think this movie(from the little I know) really glorifies God when lined up against Scripture. Just my .02 worth. :)
We haven't seen the movie, but I just finished reading the book aloud to my children. (Finished it tonight as a matter of fact!) I was amazed at how it paralleled Christ's death and resurrection. (And I'm even more amazed when people say it's not an allegory!) The witch is most definitely Satan, and from the very get go the reader is aware of her evil. The reader is also aware of her cunning and how she tempts Edmond and flat out lies to him...just like Satan.
I literally cried as I read the part where Aslan (who represents Jesus) asks Lucy and Susan to just walk along with him and put their hands on his mane. I could simply feel his sorrow. It brought to mind Jesus begging Peter and the other disciples to please stay awake with Him in the garden.
The book does an awesome job of explaining the need for a death punishment when someone breaks the Law of Narnia...which is just like the Law of God. And yet Edmond's life is spared because Aslan - who did not break the Law and was there from the very beginning of Narnia - took his place and did so without a fight. Just like Jesus took our place on the cross.
And then Aslan came back to life and defeated the witch. Just like Jesus did.
Yes, the book contains creatures that are also commonly in myths, but they are simply fantastical creatures. LOL a lot of the creatures he mentioned, I had never even heard of before! But the creatures themselves aren't necessarily "pagan" simply because they have appeared in pagan myths. People are often in pagan myths as well, but that doesn't make people pagan.
I realize that I'm speaking only for the book. Again, I haven't seen the movie. We do plan to (most likely will wait till it comes out on DVD since we're cheap and almost never go to the movie theater), but I already know that it is different in many respects from the book. That is a bummer, and from what I've HEARD, the movie doesn't do as good of a job with the allegory as the book does.
It does, however, all depend on what your dh feels is right though. Mine is completely for Narnia, and I'm in agreement with him (both because he is my husband and because I am for Narnia myself).
I just watched the movie the other day and I have read the books. C.S. Lewis made it clear that he intended the books to be an allegory. The books definitely make that clear(at least in LW&W). The movie is pretty close, but some of the wording is changed, which takes from the feeling C.S. Lewis intended.
I think when we judge these books or the movie, we must consider C.S. Lewis' intent. I have read alot of his books and although I don't(nor does my hubby)always agree with the soundness of all his doctrine, I do believe he tried to be biblical in what he did.
I think that this is something we must each consider with our husbands in prayer and make the decision from that point. As for me and my hubby, we love these books and we will go see the movie again this saturday..my husband took my youngest daughter out, because she was becoming impatient.
Crystal: Thanks for bringing this up. I have watched the movie and read the book to the children. After watching I had a study which highlighted the scripture about having nothing to do with mysticism etc. Poor, poor paraphase.
I felt badly that I didn't recongize these issues before. Even watching the Wizard of Oz really got to my conscious. I won't project this onto others but have certainly been thinking about it more.
We don't celebrate Halloween for those very reasons so I want to make sure all my actions are lining up with God honoring activities.
I took all of my children to the movie not remembering all the battle scenes. It is not a family movie for our family. We watch very little t.v. so the violence was hard for all of us to stomach. The one thing that bothered me some was the children engaging in acts of war. Innocence of childhoood seems to be thrust into adulthood a little more than I felt comfortable with. Not only can children act out this kind of stuff-My old social work journals listed study after study showing how violence impacted children emotionally in the media-but children who are compassionate might over identify with the threats to the childrens lives. It was a bit much. Thankfully we were able to talk about it. I will be more discerning in the future.
The nice thing is that we as a family do have a strong foundation and were able to talk about much of the movie together. Often the children themselves make the decision not to participate in these things. I would say the movie is a bit more intense than the book. As a parent I can stop and instruct in the bible rather than be fed all the visual images without filtering.
I, too, see problems with endorsing a witch in LW&W. I have never read any of the Chronicles of Narnia, and I've always been somewhat skeptical of using fantasy to portray Biblical truths.
The endorsement of this movie by so many "Christians" is astounding. I wrote a post about that very thing on my blog. I think the blanket acceptance of it is almost scary
We need to be careful that we carry our thoughts out to a logical conclusion. If one is to avoid all material that contains the word witch or a witch character, then one must also avoid reading Bible passages such as the witch of Endor. I am opposed to evil being portrayed as good and vice versa as in the Harry Potter series. I am not opposed to books where witches are portrayed as evil simply because they contain witches in the story. What concerns me is that since the Lord of the Rings movies came out, homeschoolers have been going to the movies in droves, which also exposes them to previews, which, in turn, drives the desire to see other movies and to spend more money on entertainment drivel. Don't get me wrong, I go to movies and watch TV, but I am also aware of how much time it is wasting - time that could be used for Kingdom purposes. If the average teen continues to watch TV at the same rate as they are today, by the time they are 80 they will have spent 10 full years watching TV - and that's not counting time in movies or sleeping time!
Lindsey said:
"Does this movie portray these characteristics which God tells us to think on? Does it encourage thoughts of being just, lovely, pure, etc?"
It actually does.
On the issue of allegory, it is my understanding that C.S. Lewis himself said it was not an allegory, but it was him imagining how God would act in another world. He used this to illustrate many of the characteristics of God in a different setting.
I agree with those who mentioned that this is not a movie for young children due to the violence.
I also think that a person who has not read the book can fully understand it - my husband enjoyed the movie and understood the story.
This is an issue where people need to show a lot of grace and humility when others don't agree with them.
Ok I have to confess. I left my church in tears the Sunday before this movie came out. I was so angry and frustrated with how my preacher portrayed the book as the end all be all and therefore the movie would of course be the turning point for our nation. "Its just a book!" I complained to my hubby. "Why is he so passionate about a book that is not the Bible?" I wanted to know. My husband had agreed to go to the movie with our church on opening night and I was looking forward to seeing it, but I had my heart set against seeing any kind of Christian symbolism in the movie. We took two of our five children choosing carefully who would go. It ended up being the eight year old girl and the four year old boy. The movie was AMAZING! The very next night the eight year old had some serious questions about Aslan dying for Edmund even though Aslan had done nothing wrong. It was so easy to flow right into a gospel presentation with her after that. The children talk about this movie constantly. They were not scarred for life having watched it. There was absolutly NO blood or gore and only a few scary parts that were over rather quickly. I got my DH the books for Christmas and was floored through all of them at the Christian sybolism.
It was a little off seeing the children in battle but the girls were not in the battle per se and the boys looked like young men fighting for something they believed in. I did not see any innocene lost as much as I saw maturity gained. Im not "preaching" Narnia as so many preachers have decided to, but it is a good movie and the books are awesome. I would not be ashamed to sit with Jesus and watch this movie. Although, I could do withour the "all things Narnia" craze we are going through. Of course Im not going to condem something just because the world embraces it...we would be out of a lot of stuff if thats what we did.
I really like what Mary and Julie had to say. We are not going to agree always, even between Christians.
I'm confused why people would object to a witch being in the story since she is portrayed as evil! There is a very famous witch in the Bible, if you recall.
C.S. Lewis was a creative, God-fearing man. His books, fiction and non, brought COUNTLESS people closer to the Lord. He had a way of explaining God that even uneducated people could understand. He brought people to Jesus! The proof is in the pudding, as they say. I suggest that people who have never even read his books hesitate before trying to peg him as some kind of pagan, etc. Ridiculous!
The movie was very well-done. It was very obviously about Jesus, just as the books are!
If this movie brought one person to think about Christ, or to seek him....then it was worth all the money in Hollywood to make it.
On another note...if I wrote a children's story with talking animals in it...am I a pagan because there are talking animals in the pagan religion? What if I use a character that is a talking snake in my story...am I glorifying SATAN? Absolutely not. Common sense, my friends. :)
I think in the end it's a personal judgement. Having read the books early in life, I think there are a great many lessons that can be learned from the books. While we are of the world, we choose what to accept and put back. If you think you can avoid ever having contact with thinigs that are potentially damaging or negative, good luck, but you'll also be missing out on all the great things you can learn. Sometimes you just have to stick your neck out a bit and be open to diversity and creative interpretation.
I agree with razorbackmama.
I had read the series a long time ago and really didn't like it. I think I was too young and I have never appreciated it because I had seen the PBS version of it and it seemed so weird.
However, when I saw the movie I was reminded how many similarities there was in the movie to the crusifixion story in the Bible. I was even surprised how the two sisters stayed with Aslan after he died and took care of his body like the women in the Bible. (Razorbackmama summed up most of the similarities in her post and I'm not going to repeat them.)
There was some battle violence but nothing compared to LOTR. I actually think that Narnia is more for children and that LOTR is more for older chilren and adults. I actually liked the LOTRs stories better because they were very deep and complicated. I like books like that. Lewis started out writing a fairy tale and the story turned into, TLW&WR.
I also liked, Pilgrims Progress which, I remember, had giants and dragons in it. Never heard anybody complain about that book yet.
I think if people don't feel comfortable reading mythology or books with mythology in them that is fine. But, personally I think if a story is going to make a nonbeliever think about the Christian message behind the story then that is a good thing. It shouldn't replace the Bible but I don't see anything wrong with it. If the evangelical community wants to endorse a movie with a very clear message (it was pretty clear to me who Aslan and the Witch were supposed to be) they are free to do so as long as they don't start playing the movie in place of regular worship.
When Passion of the Christ came out all of my Christian friends were so upset about it. I was too but for a different reason. They were upset because they thought people were replacing it with the Bible. I was upset because someone was playing the Son of God. We even had a Sunday School service to show why we shouldn't see it. All the reasons were that it was being used in stead of the Bible which would be wrong, if people were. ( I did see it on DVD and thought it was very good and understand why it was so popular.)
If movies and or books like Passion and Narnia make people think about Christ or rethink their salvation I don't think it is a bad thing. When I saw the witche's goblins shaving Aslan's mane I did cry because it was a picture of the Romans tearing out Jesus's beard. That very scene made me think of Christ's humiliation. I had not thought of his humiliation in awhile. That part of the movie was a blessing to me.
I think I will reread the books again, now that I am older and wiser. When I first read them I was so young that I totally missed the Christian message. I was worried that the children would never get back to their mother which was a big detraction of the story to me. If I had gone in that wardrobe I would've come right back out because I would have been afraid of not seeing my parents again.
Ladies...I must restate something I said in regards to C.S. Lewis' intent for this as an allegory. After talking to my wonderful hubby, he told me that actually Lewis had said that it was not an allegory but a "supposal"...what if this fantastical world needed saving, what would it be like?
Mary said: "but it was him imagining how God would act in another world. He used this to illustrate many of the characteristics of God in a different setting."
I apologize for the confusion and I thank both my hubby and Mary for clearing that bit up.
I still feel that even so there is definitely Christian elements in the stories. The White Witch is portrayed as evil.
I also feel that the violent seens are going to be disturbing to some children and adults, but having also seen LOTR, they are tame. The fact that the characters, Peter and Edmund, fight in battle is not unrealistic. Through out the ages young men/boys have gone to battle and to portray it here is merely realistic. It can be a sad thing, but is not new to our world. I think some scenes are necessary to the movie or book, but you must use discretion when allowing your children to watch the movie. On the other hand, I do believe that there is alot of unneccesary violence on T.V. and monitor carefully what my children watch. I do let my daughter watch certain historically based movies or in this case the LW&W as long as the violence is not graphic. In this movie, the violence is not gratuitous or graphic, just there.
I recommend caution with children and again we will not all agree, but this is something to take up with the Lord and our hubbies.
Crystal,
We,too, have seen TLW&W recently. While I know that C.S Lewis somewhere stated that is was not intended to be allegorical it is very hard to see the movie OR read the books and not see a strong, underlying Christian theme. While I'm sure we could argue this issue for eons to come, ultimately it is an issue for each family to discern for themselves.
C.S. Lewis became a Christian late in life. He was also a professor of Medieval Literature. I can only assume that his background in this sort of literature played a significant role in his character choices. Suffice it to say, I personally do not think he ever intended his character choices to be offensive to anyone. I'm sure he probably indentified with these types of characters because that was what he knew best.
I do not wish to vilify nor glorify his writing or him as an individual. Only to say we found the movie to be well done and an excellent adaptation of the book. I do wish to say that we should be careful of imputing motives where we do not know why he included these characters. Many did and still do consider these characters as harmless pieces of fiction.
Once again, I reiterate the comments of others here that this will have to be a personal conviction for each family.
I have not seen it and am not really planning on seeing it. Mostly because this book scared me as a child and I do not like things that are scary and have evil in them. I don't see the reason to subject myself to that when there are many other more valuable things I can do with my time...for myself. I have not seen LOTR or am ever planning on and have nothing to do with Harry Potter. I also will not watch the Passion as I have a vivid mind and reading the bible is enough word picture of the awful suffering Jesus went through.
I have seen a positive thing with this movie The L,W &W as my brother went to see it who is going towards some other religions and it really spoke to him and he was much softer towards God it seemed like. He said it spoke to him the picture of Christ very vividly.
I know from what others have stated here and other places that C.S Lewis was not a believer when he wrote these and did not mean them as allegory, but was a seeker at the time. It is fiction and I think like fiction we have to weigh it in all its stregths and weaknesses and remember what it is and that it is not the bible.
I don't know much about TLW&W. I haven't ever read the books or seen any movie form of it. But after reading some of the posts on here and then of course, seeing all the "WHOOHOO's" from the Christian community, it makes me wonder why so many are RAVING about this movie and how "close" it comes to the Bible, and so forth. When Christians are surveyed about how much we know about the Bible or Christ it shows we know very little because we don't READ the Bible. We don't have time, etc., or it is too "dry/boring".
It seems so very shallow to me as I think about why we get so excited over things that "look" Biblcal (movies, books, other enterainment). I do wonder what God would say. I do agree though, that it is every anyone's choice to do as they see fit for their selves or family. No one should be able to tell you "yes" or "no".....but I do think that we have a responsibility to really think things through and compare with Scripture the things we let into our lives and those of our children - no matter how old they are. Is it "better" or the "best"? Best being totally in line with God's Word. A hard row to hoe sometimes....:-)
I agree with some of the other commentors that consistency is important. If we are going to decry Narnia because it has mythological creatures and a witch, that means we should not read or watch any fairy tales (Hans Christian Andersen, the Grimms), any mythology (King Arthur stories, Beowulf, Greek myths), any science fiction, any fables (Aesop), any fantasy...any fiction that has mythological creatures, talking animals, made-up characters (fairies, aliens, etc.), or presents evil in the form of a witch/wizard/etc.
If someone feels a strong personal conviction about avoing these elements of fiction, I respect that and hope they will follow that conviction. I wold expect them to be consistent, though.
I read the Magician's Nephew and The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. I'm going to read the rest of series as well. I also saw the movie.
The movie in my opinion follows closely with the book. In the end it comes down to personal choice. That's the great thing about being in America. If you don't want to see it you don't have too. And if you want to see it then no one can stop you.
There are things that are obviously bad for you but others like this movie which for some maybe on the line. So read the books or watch the movie without your children and with your husband (if you are married) and then decide. Well that's what I would do if I had children and wasn't sure but then again I'm not.
This is only my opinion so I hope I didn't offend anyone with it.
"......because we don't READ the Bible. We don't have time, etc., or it is too 'dry/boring'."
Good point CA Worchester! I liked your whole comment but this thought really hit me because I've seen it in my own life at times.
C.A., you said,
But after reading some of the posts on here and then of course, seeing all the "WHOOHOO's" from the Christian community, it makes me wonder why so many are RAVING about this movie and how "close" it comes to the Bible, and so forth. When Christians are surveyed about how much we know about the Bible or Christ it shows we know very little because we don't READ the Bible. We don't have time, etc., or it is too "dry/boring".
Please be careful with your words. The way you stated this, it sounds as if one enjoyed the book/movie, then he/she does not know much about the Bible. If that is what you intended, then that is a pretty bold accusation for someone who has not even read the books or seen the movie.
I read Michael Spencer's writings (internetmonk.com). He's a pastor in Kentucky, and he has written an article relating to this:
http://www.internetmonk.com/articles/P/pumpkin.html
"One of the best imaginative writers, C.S. Lewis, who created all of the Narnia characters, was convinced that God gave human beings the realm of the imagination to be a sort of classroom to teach them, in a childish form, the spiritual nature of the universe and reality itself. In allowing them to create the imaginative realm, they were learning to reflect on reality and see its true character, and to see their own character as well. It was a way to see that human beings are the imaginative creations of God himself, and they reflect both his nature and their own fallen, rebellious nature."
Dear Razorback.....nope, I wasn't inferring what you thought I might be....just making an observation in general. :-)
I was observing how much hype goes into "Christian" entertainment and how it is declared so "great and wonderful", "INSPIRATIONAL!!!" by the general Christian community and then when you talk about the Bible it is beaten down so much. It just strikes me odd that we get so worked up about anything Christian BUT the Bible. The Scriptures ARE God's exact Words to us.....why don't we get worked up about those??!!! I mean, there really is no doubt about what the message is....right????
Again, people can choose for themselves. I am not making any judgements here.
I think that was the problem I had with the excitement my church and pastor generated for the movie. I was devestated that he was getting all hyped up and passionate about a fiction book. I just dont agree with that. Dont preach something from the pulpit like its gospel if it is not.
That being said, as I posted above I enjoyed the movie and am enjoying the books. It did lead to a gospel presentation for my children and it might even be instrumental in my oldest girl coming to know the Lord. I would love that, but the Bible will still be the most important book around here.
In regards to Narnia, the movie.
I had to remind myself...this is a movie, as I would allow myself to picture Christ as Aslan and would start to "lose" it. I wanted to keep composure at the theater. (I had to do the same thing with "The Passion".)
Yes, each family needs to make their own decisions regarding everything in life, but since we are sharing our own thoughts, I thought that I would add mine.
To the discussion of children entering battle. First off, we are in a BATTLE everyday. A SPIRITUAL BATTLE that yes, our CHILDREN are involved in daily. When they are younger and don't understand, we are doing the battling for them, but as they get older they join us in the battle, still at a young age! Use this scene (and many others) as a teaching tool to explain the spiritual battles we face each day. It is easier to sometimes "see" what we are trying to explain to our children. There is evil in the world. Satan is real.
I too believe to focus on Philipians 4:8 & 9, "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure..." Yes, Satan is true and real. Again, children seeing the White Witch for what she is...evil, lying, deceitful, untrustworthy, manipulative, etc., shows us a clear example of how Satan tries to manipulate, lie, be deceitful and all that he is capable of in our lives if we are not ready for battle. These come to us in "food", greed, power, and all that Satan and the White Witch represent (how easily Edmond was tempted and manipulated by the White Witch, not discerning that she was evil). We need to teach our children to be discerning. For a child to "see" this and not just explained to them, can have a permanent image stuck in their memory to draw from.
Now of course I would not use my logic in all disgusting things of this world to show that there is "bad stuff" out there, but for spiritual principles, we saw many benefits from the movie.
Do you choose to not watch even a perfect, word for word movie about the Bible? Of course not, but you should agree that using more of your senses, hearing and seeing, makes a bigger impact on your life and in learning.
I think that Christians embracing the movie is two fold (plus many others for sure).
One: Many non-Christians will go see TLTWTW, but might not pick up a Bible to read it. But now, when your husband is at work, or you are talking to a non-Christian friend, you can say, "Did you see TLTWTW? Wow, what a great movie. What did you think of Aslan, giving up his life for Edmond, coming back to life? Well, that is just like my Jesus! He did the same for me and you!" Of course, put this in your own words! But now, your friend has a visual picture of what Jesus did for us without opening a Bible. Now, direct your friend to the "TRUE" story in Scripture.
Two: We ARE sending a message to Hollywood, that the world does want to see clean, no swearing, no sex, family friendly, movies. We are tired of the garbage they have been putting out. Has anyone else noticed the amount of family movies that have been released over the last few years? I think some are getting the message!!! Again, most are not perfect by a Christian standard, but they are getting better!
Evil was evil and good was good. That makes a huge difference in the story. There is no wishy washy humanistic ideas. We found the same for The Lord of the Rings movies. There was a clear line between good and evil and evil did need to be defeated.
Anyway, feel free to disagree....
Thank you, everyone, for the excellent thoughts and commentary. This is a great discussion. I appreciate that people are thinking this through and discussing it as a family and not just blatantly accepting things across the board. That's what I want to enourage people to do -- to hold everything up in the light of Scripture.
Personally I don't care if I ever set foot in a movie theater. Even if the movie content is ok, we generally end up getting previews I would never want my kids to see, not to mention the language of people around us. I'll wait for it to come out on DVD, screen it, and then let my kids watch it.
This is not the first time I have posted on this topic, nor, I fear, will it be the last. I skimmed through quite a bit of content and will be adding my comments in two chunks - one on the topic of fantasy and one on C.S. Lewis. Crystal - please forgive me for the length of my comments - the topic is just too broad.
Once again, I find myself reiterating that the Narnia books, and thus, the movie, are loaded with pagan imagery and symbolism. I believe there has already been a previous topic about the “characters”, like the dryads, naieds, Bacchus, etc. already, so I’ll touch on a few others:
In TLW&W, Edmond asks the witch for “Turkish Delight”. Apparently it is lost on the Christian leadership and readers that C.S. Lewis' turkish delight is also the name of a narcotic concoction, made with hashish mixed with confections so it is more edible. If one does a simple search on the internet, you can find recipes for this highly addictive drug, which is still called Turkish Delight.
Ernest Abel wrote in his book, Marihuana: The First Twelve Thousand Years :"As in India, local officials in Egypt were alarmed at the large numbers of inhabitants who used hashish directly or in confections, many of which were exported to Europe. Among the variety of confectionery treats containing hashish that were sent abroad were 'Turkish Delight,' square pieces of hashish containing sugar and gelatin which were a particular favorite of the students at Cambridge University in England."
There is also a bit where Mr. Beaver explains that the White Witch is not human because she is descended from Lilith—a demonic being who was Adam's first wife, according to medieval Jewish legend—as well as the bit where Mr. Tumnus regales Lucy with stories of how the Roman god Bacchus and his drinking buddy Silenus feasted with the forest people.
Another good quote I’ve found has this to say, "....some people will say, "We condemn Harry Potter because the characters on the side of good practice witchcraft, suggesting that witchcraft is acceptable." There’s also the complaint that the Potter books bring in elements of astrology, the use of crystal balls, and spell casting. But all of these elements are also in the Narnia books! In The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, Lucy, casts a spell to make invisible creatures visible again. Now, what is the literal interpretation of that? That you can do spells as long as they are the "right" spells, and you cast them under Jesus’ authority? " [Harry Potter and the Disputable Matter
I also remember from The Last Battle, when the faithful Narnians enter the Narnia within Narnia, there is a young Calorman sitting by a tree. When Lucy asks him why he’s there, he replies that all his life he’s done service to “Tash”, the Narnian Anti-Christ, and has been taught to hate Aslan. But Aslan tells him that all the service he has rendered to Tash, Aslan says is the same as if it were rendered to him. Utter blasphemy!! So in Lewis’ Narnia, you don’t have to believe in “Christ” exclusively to obtain salvation.
Now to quote from Lewis himself, regarding his own “theological” beliefs:“[God] said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him—for we can prevent Him, if we choose—He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine.
C. S. Lewis, Beyond Personality (London: The Centenary Press, 1945), 48.
Lewis' so-called conversion is described by one of his friends in Light on C. S. Lewis as having come about by thinking. On page 62 of that book it says, "It did not come by sudden intuition, or overwhelming vision, or even by the more usual path of conviction of sin calling for repentance and atonement. It came by taking thought and it added many cubits to his stature." The author of this statement was making a direct attack upon the word of God which says in Matthew 6:27, Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. It is not possible to be saved without recognizing one's own lost condition and the need to repent, thus it is hardly surprising that Lewis' life did not show fruit unto righteousness.
This same friend states on the same page that Lewis' "Christianity...was also important to him professionally..." and that it eased "the camaraderie with some of his friends..." who were mostly professing "Christians." In short, his "conversion" to Christianity was financially and socially good for him.
Of the many blasphemous statements he has made in his writings, probably one of the worst is found on page 276 of C.S. Lewis: A Biography, by Roger Lancelyn Green. Lewis stated, "I had some ado to prevent Joy and myself from relapsing into Paganism in Attica! At Daphni it was hard not to pray to Apollo the Healer. But somehow one didn't feel it would have been very wrong - would have only been addressing Christ sub specie Apollinis."
Lewis allowed that “all Holy Scripture is in some sense– though not all parts of it in the same sense – the word of God.”Leaving aside the question of which books Lewis denoted by the term “Holy Scripture,” is it true that the phrase “word of God” is used equivocally of various parts of Scripture? Are the Psalms the word of God in a sense different from Romans? If so, what are those different senses? In a letter Lewis wrote to Clyde Kilby on May 7, 1959, he argued, “If every good and perfect gift comes from the Father of Lights, then all true and edifying writings, whether in Scripture or not, must in some sense be inspired.”
Speaking of their writings, the Psalms, Lewis characterized some of them as “fatal confusion,” “devilish,” “diabolical“contemptible,” “petty” and “vulgar”.
Nor did Lewis stop with these adjectives to describe what he called “Holy Scripture.” He wrote: “Naivety, error, contradiction, even (as in the cursing Psalms) wickedness are not removed. The total result is not ‘the Word of God’ in the sense that every passage, in itself, gives impeccable science or history. It carries the Word of God....”
So, according to Lewis, Scripture is not the word of God; it “carries” the word of God. “It is Christ Himself,” Lewis said, “not the Bible, who is the true word of God. The Bible, read in the right spirit and with the guidance of good teachers, will bring us to Him.” The Bible is not the true word of God, according to Lewis. In order to lead us to Christ, it must be read in the right spirit (he did not tell us what that is) and with the guidance of good teachers. It does not speak for itself, but only through its interpreters.
Finally, in an interview with Christianity Today, Douglas Gresham also stated the following when asked about the Christian content of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
"Christians are concerned that this film retains the apparent Christian imagery of …"
"Gresham: You have to bear in mind that Hinduism has a dying god who dies for his people, then comes back. Norse mythology has the dying god. Greek mythology has the dying god. This myth is not new and it's not unique to Christianity. Yes, Christians who watch the movie or read the book will look for Christian symbolism. But I think that's the wrong way to approach it. I think it's far better to read the book or see the movie and try to find out where you fit into Narnia."
So in other words, all religions, all faiths, can find some meaning in these so-called “Christian” books.
There are tons of good links to this topic on the web. The "Blessed Quietness Journal" has some great thought-provoking articles as well.
Crystal, once again I have to apologize for the length!!
Now I will address the aspect of fantasy, but I can’t do justice to it so I am liberally quoting - from Biblical Discernment Ministries 1/97.
The dictionary defines fable as:
1. "fantasy/fiction/falsehood dependent for effect on strangeness of setting (as other worlds or times) and of characters (as supernatural or unnatural beings); the setting is usually in a non-existent or unreal world, the characters are fanciful or unreal, or the conflict focuses on physical or scientific principles not yet discovered or contrary to present experience."
- Fantasy is especially dangerous for children. While most children in the 1970s knew enough truth to place divination in the forbidden realm of the occult, today's children -- who often feel more comfortable with occult games than Biblical truth -- see nothing wrong with pagan practices. Fantasy movies, like Disney's The Lion King, are good matches for the new earth-centered paradigm or world view that is transforming childrens' views of reality. While God told us to continually communicate truth to our children (Deut. 6:5-7), today's culture trains children to see reality through a global, earth-centered filter. This "new" mental framework distorts truth, stretches the meaning of familiar words, and promotes mystical "insights" that are incompatible with Christianity. Packaged with entertainment, this message usually bypasses rational resistance, desensitizes opened minds, and fuels general acceptance of pagan spirituality (Berit Kjos, "The Spirit Behind The Lion King," 1/95,
Fantasy Does Not Fit True Godliness
1. What is godliness (1 Tim. 6:3; Prov. 3:5-6; 28:14)? Romans 1:18 teaches that God's wrath is against "ungodliness." And as shown above, fantasy is ungodliness.
Diving into fantasy, which, by its very nature is against the Truth, is a denial of God, what He says, and the Truth of His Word. How can a lie be used for evangelism, worship, or anything else godly? By its very nature, fantasy removes the person from the Truth (reality) and moves them into a realm away from God.
This ungodliness is well depicted in the CBD Fiction Catalog, where it says on page 2:
"It's been said that reading fiction is one of the best ways to 'escape' from the cares of everyday life. Since the beginning of time, great thinkers and writers (even Jesus himself) have been inspired to create allegories, parables and epics, as well as the good, old-fashioned novel itself. What a tragedy to think we have to settle for fiction that merely grabs our attention, but lacks the values and spiritual insight we could carry with us when we return to the 'real world.'" [Again, the move from fantasy to reality.]
Is this what the Lord wants us to do -- "escape" from reality? No! Fantasy is an attack on the very core of one's being as a follower of Christ! And what about the claim that Jesus' parables and the allegories in Scripture, or figurative speech, are parallel to the use of fantasy? No! The Bible's parables, allegories, and figurative speech are not about fantasy at all. They are all about Truth!
A Love For God Will Oppose Fantasy
God would not have His children take refuge in unreality. A love for God is equal to a love for the Truth (John 14:6). Matthew 22:34-40 teaches to love the Lord with all your mind (imagination). What does the Lord say in Ephesians 4:25? -- Speak the Truth to one another! Do we ever stop speaking the truth and speak fantasy to one another, or write fantasy to one another? Is this how God would have us live?
Notice Ephesians 4:29. What's the goal? Build each other up in the TRUTH! (not in fantasy). If a Christian is loving the Lord with all his MIND (imagination), he will be dwelling on truth, reality, His Word, and Him, NOT FAIRY TALES AND FANTASY!
Fantasy typically is filled with evil. What should be the Christian's perspective of evil (Rom. 16:19)? If we love the Lord with all our MINDS, then we will not only avoid taking any pleasure in fantasy, but we will hate it. Because fantasy is anti-reality, it is against godliness, it opens the door to deceit, and is an affront to the very core of your being as a Christian. And what is that? -- Taking refuge in God, not escaping reality (Psalm 73:25-28).
- In 2 Timothy 4:3-4 ("For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths"), the Greek word translated myths means tales, stories, or fables (untrue stories).
Some would say, "The Bible uses (a) parables, (b) allegories, (c) figurative language, symbolism, etc., and (d) dreams and visions, so what's wrong with C.S. Lewis doing the same? A few examples follow:
(a) Parables are not fables.
Matt. 12: 33-35 (using a real idea, expressing another real idea)
Matt. 13:3-9/18-23 (real/real)
Matt. 13:24-30/13:37-43 (real/real)
Matt. 13:31-32 (real/real)
Matt. 13:33 (real/real)
Matt. 13:44 (real/real)
Matt. 13:45-46 (real/real - He does not fly out of the realm of reality)
Matt. 13:47-50 (real/real)
(b) Allegory is symbolic, not mythical -- Gal. 4:22-31 (real/real)
(c) Figurative is not mythical -- John 6:53-63 -- Jesus does not fly out of the realm of reality. In fact, He uses such explicitly (real) language that people are having a hard time understanding Him. Yet, He explains that He is speaking in a figurative way (John 6:63).
(d) Dreams and Visions are not untrue stories -- Daniel 7:1ff; 8:17 refers to truth; 8:26 ("is true"); 9:21 (writing of Truth). These are not untrue stories (fables). Ezekiel 1 &10 -- these are real creatures!
Of course, someone would say, "It just a story." Exactly. It is a story that is supposed to illustrate truth, and when it fails to do this, it falls short and becomes an untrue story (fable), which is not doing a good job (at times) in illustrating truth.
No doubt, there are many aspects about the story that are interesting and thought-provoking, but that does not excuse the twisting of truth into a lie.
- A few more Scriptures indicate our concern with "Christian" fantasy:
(a) 2 Peter 1:16 -- We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
(b) Titus 1:14 -- and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.
(c) 1 Timothy 1:4 -- nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work -- which is by faith.
(d) 1 Timothy 4:7 -- Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.
- Considering the present distress (2 Tim. 3:1), how can fantasy, no matter how supposedly good it may be, be found profitable?
We need to concentrate on reality -- the truth of the Word of God -- and leave the fantasizing to those who are perishing (especially in light of the prevailing ignorance of the Word).
And, especially when Paul describes the "against the true church" as those who will "be turned aside to fables," we ought to hold fast to the truth -- the Word of God (1 Thess. 5:21).
Phillipians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
That us interesting about the Turkish Delight. I would have to say though do you really think a child would ask for a drug or would he ask for a candy? This candy is a wonderful candy that is the same as what we buy here called Aplets and Cotlets and I have recipes to make this at home.
I haven't had time to look through all the comments here yet, but I think you bring up some good comments. I remember seeing The Chronicles of Narnia animated version back when I was a child, and it scared me very much. A few years ago my oldest son saw the series that his grandparents have which I believe was from BBC. He was so terrified from some parts of it (and other books in the series) that he had nightmares for awhile.
Personally, I don't find that children usually pick up on the symbolic or allegorical elements of stories like Chronicles of LOTR and so forth. They tend to see just what is there. So, I do not find these types of books to have any sort of spiritually redeeming elements for most children.
For me, I do not like fantasy genre stuff at all, so this stuff has never appealed to me. I don't go for the mythological beasts and magic and so forth. But, that's more just my opinion or personality than anything.
My oldest child does read and enjoy some books with fantasy elements in it, and for his personality and age I am ok with that. But I would definitely consider it on a child-by-child basis.
That being said, we have no plans to see Narnia until maybe it's out on DVD.
I have a good friend who has been reading the Narnia books to her children for many years. They feel that they are wonderful books. But, the parents have also been there reading each word and talking to the children about the books all the way through. They have decided not to see the movie at all, because they do not want screen images to replace what their children have already developed in their imaginations. Interesting perspective!
quote:
"Two: We ARE sending a message to Hollywood, that the world does want to see clean, no swearing, no sex, family friendly, movies. We are tired of the garbage they have been putting out. Has anyone else noticed the amount of family movies that have been released over the last few years? I think some are getting the message!!! Again, most are not perfect by a Christian standard, but they are getting better!"
This might be true but the problem is that the money they make on the 'good', 'clean' movie goes on to finance the other garbage they come up with.
quote:
Lewis' so-called conversion
---------------------------
This sentence seems awfully close to judging another person's salvation and I don't think we are supposed to do that as Christians.
I've read some pretty disturbing things about Martin Luther and his beliefs, yet as a Protestant, I'm certainly glad God used him the way He did.
Yes, we can disagree with someone's writings and theology. But where in the Bible are we told that we can know whether someone else is saved or not?
I think we DO have room for judgement...by the fruit. We make judgement calls everyday. I don't think it is a sin to judge....I think it is a good policy in one's life. However, when judgement becomes selfrighteousness, then there is a problem.
There has to be a balance. :-)
One of the main differences between TLW&W and Harry Potter is the portrayal of witches. In Narnia, witches are evil. Period. In Harry Potter witches (and wizards) are almost all "good" with only a minority being evil. One of the problems I have with Lord of the Rings is Gandalf the wizard being a good guy. In most of the Disney movies, like Snow White and Sleeping Beauty, witches are portrayed as evil hags. Now, I'm not saying that as long as witches are portrayed as evil, the movie (or book, or whatever) is a-okay, I'm just saying that I tend to have a more favorable view of a story if evil is portrayed as evil.
I feel the movie failed in one point: In the book, when Father Christmas gives the weapons to the girls, he tells them he doesn't want them to be in the battle because "battle is a terrible thing when women are involved."...or something like that. In the movie he only says "wars are dreadful fierce"
As far as the boys being in the battle, this was in the book. Granted, I don't think the battle was quite the same in the book as it was in the movie, but it was an all-out war none the less. Historically, it was not uncommon for boys as young as twelve to take part in battles as warriors.
I have not read the books, nor seen the movie. I bought the first book a while back and my husband flipped when he saw it. I started researching the books and C.S. Lewis and ended up throwing it away. One thing I read is that in the end of the story (and someone I know who had the books on hand confirmed this) Aslan accepts even those children who served Taz, saying that they good works they were doing for Taz they were really doing for Aslan. That is completely anti-gospel. No one ever mentions this as a problem and I don't understand why.
Concerning judging, please do a scripture search. Crosswalk will help. We are to judge those within, and Jesus said we would know them by their fruit. We are not to judge those outside of the Faith.
I never cared for the books really. My sister and I did read a few of them. I might see the movie someday but it is not something that excites me. I did see the Christiam elements in it but just wasn't thrilled with it all.
quote from Rene':
"One thing I read is that in the end of the story (and someone I know who had the books on hand confirmed this) Aslan accepts even those children who served Taz, saying that they good works they were doing for Taz they were really doing for Aslan. That is completely anti-gospel. No one ever mentions this as a problem and I don't understand why."
Good point Rene'.
quote:
Concerning judging, please do a scripture search.
-------------------------------
I don't think it's ever appropriate to judge another person's salvation unless we are mind-readers or God.
Yes, fruit can tell us some things. But even fruit that looks good on the outside to others can be done out of sin as stated in Romans 14:23b
"for whatever is not from faith is sin."
Matthew talks about chapter 8 verses 21-23:
"not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"
So even some people who appear to do wonders in His name are not His!
Some of the most caring and loving families I have known with wonderful fruit have been Mormons. I would never say on an individual basis whether or not they are saved. But I definitely know that I disagree with many Mormon teachings and find them unBiblical.
How can we know the heart and intent of others? Only God can. And that's why I still maintain that it is not Biblical to judge another person's salvation.
Liz has sure done some research. I don't know much about Lewis except from short biographies I have read of him or seen on TV. I do know that he was an intelectual and became a Christian late in life. He wrote those books when he was a young Christian. I am very interested in reading about him. Does anyone know of a good biography? I really enjoyed learning about Tolkien but even him I am no expert. I do think that I will not form an opinion of his salvation until I read more about him myself and those quotes in context. A lot of Christians in the past believed some pretty hokey things. Someone mentioned Martin Luther. He always held Mary in reverence and would even "Hail" her. I also haven't read the last Lewis book but I do understand that it was written around the time that the dispensational view of eschatology was popular (it still is). I am not going to say that Liz is dead wrong because I just don't know anything about Lewis, really and am careful to make judgements about people's salvation.
I kind of lean closer to soliodegloria on the judging side of things. I have definately seen extremes in judging by Christians. I used to be a very judgmental person, myself, but have come to see God's grace more clearly. I just don't think it is very good for us to be discussing someone's salvation if he confessed faith in Christ, which, I believe he did.
Christian movie reviewer Ted Baehr demonstrates Lewis's goal for Chronicles with a 1961 letter from Lewis to a girl. I would encourage you to read it.
http://www.movieguide.org/index.php?s=reviews&id=7030&PHPSESSID=e4ecb896b4c56ceada9a45a9590324fb
Crystal and ladies, have any of you read C.S. Lewis' most basic work, "Mere Christianity?" In it, Lewis provides a resource for understanding his appreciation of pagan myth. In sum, and as I understand it, Lewis thinks that the stuff and characters of pagan myth are important because they reveal the primal desires and expectations of humanity, for which Christianity is the only fulfillment; thus Lewis often called Christianity as "the only true myth." Lewis recognized that innocent, fanciful mythical creatures pop up throughout human culture, and are thus valuable for storytelling and for preparing the human imagination for the culmination of all stories- the Gospel of Christ.
Remember also that the Scriptural authors of Ezekiel and the Book of Revelation describe plenty of mythical, fantastic, even half-human/animal creatures as part of their apocalyptic imagination.
"The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" offers an invaluable resource for Christians who seek to redeem the culture and appropriate its resources for sharing the Gospel- which was C.S. Lewis' mission. It discourages me to hear of Christians disparaging such an amazing portrayal of redemption.
... and I commend your reflection, Sarah. It would be interesting to put Vision Forum and dear Ted Baehr, (who have begun working together lately) in dialogue about the Narnia series.
Also, to add to mm's comments, 1 Samuel 28 talks about the witch/medium of Endor.
Solideogloria:
I will concede your point and withdraw my comment about his salvation. However, consider this point, he was an unwilling convert. "You may picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted for even a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In...1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England." Dejection and reluctance are not usually the emotions that accompany salvation, so perhaps I should have said his sanctification and not his salvation.
MM:
To say that Lewis’ characters were “innocent” cannot be accurate. Many of Lewis's characters in his fantasies depicted as "good" are in reality associated with witchcraft, pagan mythology, and the Norse mysteries. They are, in fact, gods of nature. C.S. Lewis was an expert in mythology having studied it from an early age. It is impossible that he did not know what he was writing!
Furthermore, in Lewis’ own words he claims that God’s truth originated from paganism. "Paganism had been only the childhood of religion..." (p. 235,236)
MM also:
I would advise you to re-read “Mere Christianity”. According to Lewis, some heathen may belong to God without knowing it. "There are people in other religions who are being led by God's secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it. For example a Buddhist of good will may be led to concentrate more and more on the Buddhist teaching about mercy and to leave in the background (though he might still say he believed) the Buddhist teaching on certain points. Many of the good Pagans long before Christ's birth may have been in this position." (p.176, 177)
If the good pagans are going to heaven anyway, why in the world are we spending our time and money in sending out missionaries and preaching the Gospel?! Speaking of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us clearly that there is only one way to be saved -- Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
Additionally, it is argued that in presenting a blend of fantasy with analogy to Christian truth, Lewis hoped to encourage his readers to search out the truth further. This, however, was not Lewis's intention in writing his fantasies. Rather, he was genuinely enamored of mythology and believed the "Story" to take precedence over any preconceived moral.
In Lewis's own words:
"Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy tale as an instrument; then collected information about child-psychology and decided what age group I'd write for; then drew up a list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn't write in that way at all. Everything began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord" (Of Other Worlds, p. 36).
So we see that Narnia was not by design Christian allegory.
It IS however, representative of sun-god worship. The plot here, as those who have read the Chronicles will know, is that the "White Witch" has bound the land of Narnia in a perpetual winter which can only be broken by the coming of Aslan. This makes perfect sense in the context of the solar deity myths. The common story line is that a goddess kills the sun-god on mid-summer's night and thus winter comes. When the sun stays up longer on the mid-winter solstice (commonly celebrated under the disguise of "Christmas" today) he has triumphed and conquered death, thus bringing spring.
On page 150 we find that before the Witch kills Aslan, she shaves off his mane and around his face. In the symbolism of sun worship hair cutting represents ray cutting. This ritual of shaving is perhaps the very reason why God forbids the priests to shave their heads in the future temple. Ezekiel 44:20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads. Shaving of the head in the Bible, in general typifies uncleanness or removing of uncleanness. In Corinth, it was the prostitutes that shaved their heads. (1Corinthians 11:6).
When the mice chew off the ropes that bind Aslan, the very fact that mice were used is significant as well. Mice were sacred to Apollo, the sun. J.E. Cirlot's definition of Apollo is included here. On page 14 of his A Dictionary of Symbols, we read, "Apollo In mythology and alchemy, his spiritual and symbolic significance is identical with that of the sun. The spreading golden hairs which crown the god's head have the same meaning as the bow and arrow (sunrays). The Greek name for Apollo is, of course Apollon, which means 'from the depths of the lion' and expresses the meaningful relationship of the sun with the fifth sign of the Zodiac, Leo."
Sun-worship again makes it’s appearance in The Silver Chair, when Prince Rilian is delivered from the Lady of the Green Kirtle, the queen of the under world. As mentioned before, this harks back to the religious legends of the sun being held prisoner in the underworld by the evil "goddess" through the winter months. He is released at the winter equinox when the days start to lengthen. (Remember in TSC they arrive back at the surface during the "the Great Snow Dance", which is remarkably pagan and witchy in its' description.)
For everyone else, a few more Lewis quotes.
"I have the deepest respect for Pagan myths, still more for myths in the Holy Scriptures" (p.71). Lewis believed that all myths point toward God and therefore pagan myths could be "respected." He believed that the some of the "myths" in the Bible were true, such as Jesus' life, while others were not.
God "often makes prizes of humans who have given their lives for causes He thinks bad on the monstrously sophistical ground that the humans thought them good and were following the best they knew" (p.26) So, God rewards people for doing evil because they were doing the best they knew. Adolf Hitler, Lenin and Mao Tse Dong certainly thought what they were doing was good. They even had those that thought so with them, especially Hitler. Does this mean that God made prizes of them!?
"If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows...then we must starve eternally." Jesus Christ is the only bread that will eternally sustain.
"When we are such as He can love without impediment, we shall in fact be happy." According to Lewis, pure love from God is a future thing, not a present fact. If he is talking here in the future tense as it appears from this quote, then he did not believe that God loves us here and now "without impediment". Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 1John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
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Liz: I am honored by your intensive response, and clearly you have taken a great deal of your time attempting to debunk Lewis, one of the most effective apologists for the Christian faith in the modern era.
Your perspective seems to represent a slant which one typically finds in anti-Christian propoganda and historical-critical approaches to the Scripture and sacred tradition itself. Yes, as I said, Lewis appreciated both pagan myth and its fantastic creatures (the latter which we find in Scripture); and Im sure you will remember that the apostle Paul himself often said that pre-Christian religions (namely Judaism) were "religions not yet come of age," (see Galatians especially) having shadows of things to come in them- promises only fully realized in Christ.
I would gently remind you too that plenty of modern pagans denounce Christianity itself as a mere expression "of sun-god worship," and nothing else. Every analogy which you point out between such "worship" and Lewis' depiction of the death and "resurrection" of Aslan can be turned against the Gospel itself- do you really want to go there? Maybe you do. Lewis, however, would say that humanity exists in a universal expectation expressed in common motiffs; but the only true "death and resurrection of the sun god" occurs really in the death and resurrection of the Son of God.
If Crystal will permit me a question to you, what is at stake for you in your urgent commentary against Lewis' work? I assume you are not being ironical-
I'm just going to point people to Lane's blog entry on this. It's on his second blog: GreenBaggins2, or
www.brahmsgreenglove.blogspot.com.
I for one think that Lewis was a Christian, and that using pagan elements is not necessarily a bad thing. His book Till We Have Faces is one of the most Christian books you will ever find; certainly Lewis himself thought that was his greatest book. You will not find Christ in there anywhere, and you will find the Greek god Cupid in there.
The issues relate closely to the idea of evil in books. As Chesterton said, "Any book that has nothing bad in it is a bad book." You have to have conflict even to make a book interesting. Conflict implies evil. What determines the morality of a book is not whether it has evil in it, but how that evil is treated. As the best example, simply consider the Bible. There is evil in that book beyond anything in any other book I can think of. Yet it is clearly condemned everywhere it shows its ugly face. And that is one of many reasons why the Bible is so excellent.
In Christ.
Nice words, Adrian. How can the premise behind this conversation (that fantastic creatures are intrinsically "bad") survive when we find so many of them in Scripture?
Oh people, just go see this wonderful film for yourselves, or better yet, read the book, and be blessed by it, as I know you will be. I committed my life to Christ through the understanding of His sacrifice which I gained while hearing the Narnia series read to me at my parents' knees. Thousands of people have come to authentic and saving knowledge of Jesus Christ through C.S. Lewis' devoted ministry, and to disparage his work smacks of disparaging the progress of the Gospel itself; and there are plenty of committed anti-Christians doing enough of that already. Christians need to spread the Gospel, rather than stymying its spread through frivolous critique!
MM: I haven't made up my mind one way or the other about TLW&W yet but I do have some concerns.
I think Rene brought up a good point that noone has addressed:
"One thing I read is that in the end of the story (and someone I know who had the books on hand confirmed this) Aslan accepts even those children who served Taz, saying that they good works they were doing for Taz they were really doing for Aslan. That is completely anti-gospel. No one ever mentions this as a problem and I don't understand why."
your quote:
"How can the premise behind this conversation (that fantastic creatures are intrinsically "bad") survive when we find so many of them in Scripture?"
In my opinion you can't compare the Bible to regular books. For one thing the Bible is inspired by God...literally God-breathed. Also, in the Bible, the 'creatures' you mentioned are descriptions of real beings, not fiction based on a man's imagination. I must say, however, that Zan brought up an excellent point about 'The Pilgrim's Progress'.....something to think about.
your quote:
"to disparage his work smacks of disparaging the progress of the Gospel itself;"
I don't agree with this statement at all and I think it's unfair and kind of judgemental. The Bible tells us to be VERY careful about what we allow into our minds so careful discussion and consideration is warranted. I didn't come to Christ until I was 24 and I've read books and seen movies that I wish I'd never had....because it stays in your mind FOREVER. Just because one accepts Christ as their Lord and Saviour doesn't undo the consequences of past choices. So now I try to be VERY careful about what I allow into my mind.
"Christians need to spread the Gospel, rather than stymying its spread through frivolous critique!"
Evaluating something before just jumping in is not 'frivolous'. I also don't feel that this discussion has done any damage to the spread of the gospel. I'm not trying to be rude or mean in any way, I just don't want to be judged because I might not agree with Lewis or think TLW&W is a good movie to see. I'm glad Crystal brought this up and I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on BOTH sides of this issue....and yes, I think it's a valid issue to discuss, not 'frivolous' at all.
Disney is promoting it. That's enough for me to know that it isn't something that I want to see. From the same well cannot flow both sweet and sour. It isn't possible. We will not see it on that basis alone. People will continually debate the motives and intentins of C.S. Lewis while giving the motives and intentions of Disney absolutely no scrutiny. I don't get it.
I had a very lengthy discussion on my blog about this a while back. If you would like you can read i