"Three kids, four kids, that's great"
Just this past weekend at our garage sale, I met a lady who had ten children. We got into an interesting discussion with another woman standing nearby about large families. The woman standing nearby was talking very heatedly about how it was impossible to raise that many children nowadays. I decided not to further upset her by questioning why she felt that way, but I thought the overall view expressed was interesting.NEW YORK - Laura Bennett isn't bound by convention. Professionally, at age 42, she's pursuing a mid-career switch into big-time fashion design. At home, she's a mother of five — with No. 6 due next month.
"It was nothing that we planned ahead of time," Bennett says. "It's more that we were enjoying all the kids."We have a happy home. Why not have as many children as we can?"
It's barely a blip on the nation's demographic radar — 11 percent of U.S. births in 2004 were to women who already had three children, up from 10 percent in 1995. But there seems to be a growing openness to having more than two children, in some case more than four.
The reasons are diverse — from religious to, as Bennett reasons, "Why not?"
The families involved cut across economic lines, though a sizable part of the increase is attributed to a baby boom in affluent suburbs, with more upper-middle-class couples deciding that a three- or four-child household can be both affordable and fun.
There are so many misconceptions there are out there about large families. I believe so much of it is related to the modern view of children which says they are burdens not blessings, they are liabilities not assets, instead of contributing to the family they drain the family. Believe it or not, children used to be viewed as a sign of wealth - the more you had, the wealthier you were.
What do you think? Does there seem to be a growing openness to having more than two children? And, just for fun, what do you think constitutes a "large family"? I'd probably say eight or more children since I grew up in a family of seven children, and it always seemed rather small. I often found myself saying "We only have seven children." Jesse and I are hoping for a large family - we said we wanted at least 12 children when we got married - but we know that only God knows best. His timing and His plans are better than ours. We want to gladly accept however many or few He gives us and do our best to train and raise them up for the glory of God!
posted by Crystal Paine at 12:48 PM
32 Comments:
Hi Crystal,
I agree that there are many more families open to receiving the blessings He sends, then I believe there used to be. My husband is from a family of 7; which he always considered to be a smaller family. When he was younger, he always wondered why everyone else was from a very small family. I am from a family of 2. I always knew I wanted many children; I think I would like to have at least 10. So many people say that one never wants a large family, if he or she is from a big family. I have found this to be true when the family did not really teach their children that babies are a blessing. There are so many children from large families who pray that they will be blessed to have many children, as well. I think we have to be careful to shelter our children from those negative, narcisstic, worldly influences, which say that children are a burden. When we demonstrate that every child is a gift from the Lord, worthy of our energy, money, time, and love, then will our children truly understand. The greatest guarantee that our children will see babies as a blessing is if we give feet to our words, by giving of ourselves, to them. Blessings!
I have 3 small children ages 8, 7, and 2. In my mind 4 or more is considered a large family. I love my children and any child for that matter but I do not want to have anymore children. I suffer from severe post partum depression and mentally and physically I don't think I could do it again. My husband would love for us to have more children but he knows that I can't because of the ppd. I know every situation is different but to be honest I think some people just don't need children at all. You can tell by the way some people talk and by the way they do or don't for that matter treat children that they just aren't cut out to be parents. I love seeing big families out and about. I am amazed at the Dugger(I think that's the right name) family. I believe they have 16 children now. I was reading a website the other day I believe it was Tius2.com and they had a large family. I really enjoyed their website and all the articles.
When the home is happy in the Lord, the children are valued.
Did you read the study in today's paper that shows modern children are overscheduled and more prone to health problems? The study showed health benefits of horsing around with parents in the living room over formal sports training, dance lessons, music lessons, etc. I, personally, am not against those actitivies, my boys both take Kodaly class at a church about 45 minutes away each week. We also attend story time at the library. However, each evening is reserved for HORSING AROUND with Daddy, Mommy, Grandma, Grandpa and any neighbor child who wants to join in LOL.
6 children? I think that would be fun...
Katie in Ohio
Still stuck on 2.5 children until Baby Sprinkles arrives in TN hopefully this week (can you tell I'm ANXIOUS)
While 10 or more is definitely overwhelming, I'll take as many as the good Lord provides...if that is 2, I'll take that. If it is 10, God will grant me the strength and grace. :)
I don't necessarily believe in the "quiver-full" mentality, but I do believe in being open to God's plan...A happy Christian home has children! :)
My husband and I want atleast 5. He comes from a family of 12. I think 5 and up is a big family. We have this "plan" to have 5 kids by the time I'm 30. (I'm 25). If our plan does work out, I don't think I could stop having babies. They are so wonderful. I just can't imagine holding a newborn and saying, "OK, you are my last baby." My husband actually told his friend who doesn't want any kids (girlfriend does, though), "What right do I have to tell my wife, who is in her prime and has a natural desire for children, that she can't have any. That is cruel." He really shut his friend up. BTW, we have so many guy friends who don't want to have anymore kids, but their wives do. I feel SO bad for their wives. When I was engaged, I made sure that we were on the same page with children and birth control.
I think women who think you can't have a large family today are the people who think kids need the latest, most expensive stuff to make it into adulthood. It is ashame.
I am the oldest of 9 children. My parents had my youngest sister when I was 21, and she is almost 9 now. To be quite honest, there weren't many people who we came across that thought nine kids was a nice-sized family. Every where we went, people counted us and talked about us as if we were not there. I love my family, and each of my sisters and my brother, and I don't consider my family super-large. It was "normal" for me!
To be honest with you, I grew up in a family of seven children, and always wanted more. I would truly love to have fifteen children (preferably boys), but if I only get three, I'd still be happy.
I am one of the moms who blogs on (Largerfamilies.com), the website featured in this article
As the oldest of 8 children AND the mother of 8 children, I am thrilled to see larger families portrayed in a positive light.
Mary, mom to many
Crystal,
I think large families are a wonderful thing! We have four children right now ranging in age from 15 down to 3. God seems to have given me a quiet season for now, but I pray he would bless me again. If not, then perhaps we will adopt. Whatever the case, I will be content with what God has given me.
My sweet hubby found a quote awhile back that I don't have the exact wording on, but I'll try to give the gist of it. It spoke of how over the past 40 years the average square footage of a house went from 900 or so square feet to around 2200 square feet. The average family has gone from 4 children down to 2. If we are a people that live our values, then drywall is more important than children. I know I would much rather have another child than more debt! :)
I have gone back and forth about this whole area of having a large family. I have four children, but three of them I had in 14 months (twins, then another born just 14 months later). I am the unusual girl who ovulates even when breastfeeding around the clock (a set of twins!)...so my family by now could potentially be huge. What keeps me from having more children is my hopefully humble estimation of my limited maturity and capacity to serve the blessings I already have. I feel presumptuous assuming that even though I am not doing as well as I would like with the four I have it would be just fine to add another child. I would love to hear what you think about this. Should people who are struggling to be diligent to train their existing children have more?
It is interesting to me lately here as when I say I have 4 boys, the comment I always get is "How nice, are you going to have more?" One mother said she was talking to a friend in another state who was unexpectly pregnant with her 4th and was distressed because of what other people think, to "Move to MT, everyone has 4 or more children here" It is true, I see that larger families are looked at, at least 4-6 are more acceptable right now. I know we always considered families with 6 or 7, "the small families". I am the oldest of 11. I know most of us really enjoyed growing up in a big family, but I do not know that very many of them plan to have a big family (like 11)
Laurie,
This is off the subject, but, you said that you ovulate even while breastfeeding. Did you get your period before you found out you were pregnant? I have been breastfeeding (not alot) for 7 mos now and I haven't gotten my period, but for the last month, I have felt like I was going to get it any second. I feel like this when I am pregnant, too. Just wondering what in the world is going on with my body.
For us unfortunately the examples of large families have been poor ones. I know better than to believe that all large families are the same though. In the families I know with eight and more kids, that usually after child 5 on it's not the mom and dad taking care of the kids anymore but the older kids taking care of the younger ones. One mom I know simple sits in a chair directing the older children in all the household duties, childcare duties and homeschooling. These same families will malign parents who both work and put their children in daycare. Parents are to be responsible for their children not siblings. Children need to have chores and home caring responsibilities, but they are not to be made into slaves. Unfortunately, the families we've known through the years the older children were little more than servants.
I want a large family, but mostly foster and adoptive kids. I love to see successful large families. I don't see too many where we live- it's mostly a suburban area, where 3 kids is considered "soo many kids."
Crystal~
I don't personally get the feeling that large families are being widely excepted...of course this could be because I live in California. I have 2 and my 3rd on the way...and yet I still get people that think I must be crazy(and come on...3 is nothing!).
I love the idea of having 5 or 6 kids...we will see what God blesses us with. I consider having 5 or more a big family. In my church we have several families with 5 or so kids...and also one family with 10.
Just thought I'd comment on "laurie's" question/comment about whether families that are struggling with training children diligently. I believe that we all struggle with this in some degree. Some more than others. I know that I do...I see many things I need to change and I pray the Lord will fill me with the ability to change my own ways and also be able to train up my children in the way we should go. I don't think you have to be perfect to have more children. The Lord often uses our children to teach us what needs to change in us...and I know that if I listen, I will change and become a better parent for my children. Just my thoughts :-)
Blessings,
Sommer
We would like a large family. I will take what gives me and try not to worry about. On not so great days I think I am crazy to want more but then I get a hug or a kiss and all that stuff goes away. My husband and I fell that children are a reward from the LORD. I'll tell you my husband would be thrilled to have a quiverfull!! We have 3 as of now. I have two girls and a boy. I get a lot of comments like I bet you are happy you finally had a boy. When I tell them I want more children people think I am crazy. I think it is sad when you limit what GOD can give you.
Crystal,
I consider myself from a large family, but I remember crossing that threshold to "large." When we had four kids (I'm the oldest), we were on the bigger end of normal, even though almost no one we knew had that many kids. But when the fifth child was born, I definitely realized we were a large family. We're not newsworthy large, like the Duggars, but I'd say 5 and up is all the same. Our house feels the same when we have all of our six or any additional friends over.
Oh, and even though I'm not married, I'm up for as big a family as God will give. I tell all my friends, "I have fourteen names picked out, so that's an upper limit..." But I keep adding names!
To God be all glory,
Lisa
I heard someone say the other day that the best encourager for couples to have large families is to see other large families with WELL BEHAVED children. A big deterent for couples having many kids is seeing other families with wild children and caotic households. We are examples and people are watching us.
Zan, I did not have a period before I found out about my 3rd boy. I literally, for the first time in my life, almost fainted when the pregnancy test came back positive. I took the pregnancy test to see if what felt like pregnancy symptoms were just that...and they were. Though it was shocking at the time, i abosolutely love having all of my boys close together. really rough the first three years, but not it is great. They are on the same sports' teams, same grade more or less for homeschooling. So if you find that you are expecting, that is wonderful! :)
Crystal, did you have any thoughts about having a smaller size family due to the mother's lack of maturity, gifting, or ability to manage more well?
I grew up in a family with 2 children. Before becoming quiverfull in my mindset, I probably would have viewed 4 children or more as a large family. I only knew 3 families or so with 4 children, and none with more!
Now, I have a hard time pegging a large family. I'd probably say I view 3 children or less as a small family, 4-6 as a medium-sized family, and 7 or more as large.
About it being presumptious to have more children when having trouble with the ones you have... I am not "quiverfull" solely because Scripture teaches children are a blessing. If that was it, then you might think an element of deciding when it's best to have children comes into play. But, Scripture also clearly teaches that God opens and closes the womb, that He provides for all of our needs, that His strength is made perfect in weakness. We can't expect His grace and equipping to raise 10 children when we only have 3. He's constantly working in us to make us over in His image.
By trying to avoid having children (birth control, abstinence, whatever), we are trying to take control of that area, which Scripture says God controls. That is what is presumptious.
If we use birth control, he may override our will and give us a child anyway (the defense I often hear for using birth control). But often, when we try to take control and do things our own way, we reap the consequences of it. God forcibly overriding our sinful choices and negating any consequences (beyond the eternal) is not the norm.
In Love,
Heather (mom to 3 children 5 and under, expecting #4)
I have had the blessing of being raised in a happy home as the oldest of 13. My youngest sibling is 21 years younger than I am, but we still have a great relationship. He's turning 2 this month and we have so much fun together, reading or singing or tickling. Of course that is a different relationship than the ones I have with siblings closer to my own age - who are some of my very best friends - but it is just as enjoyable to me.
I have always wanted to have a large family myself. I would not consider marriage to any man unless he felt convicted of the Lord to let Him plan our family size. That's not the #1 quality I look for in a husband, but it is probably #2. ;-) I realize that just because a couple allows God to be in control does not mean that they will all be blessed with a large number of children, but I believe the important thing is to be open to the Lord's leading. My parents never would have dreamed they would have 13 children when they committed this area to the Lord, but they have loved each of us as if we were the last they might have. They have cherished and gushed over each birth and enjoyed every moment of childhood. They are not super-humans by any measure, but they do love the Lord and His blessings.
Laurie,
If you don't mind, what were some of your pregnancy symptoms? I probably should take a test, but I don't want to waste money...cheepo that I am. How far along were you when you took the test?
I would be immensely happy if I was pregnant again, but worried about being sick ( I get really sick with both babies) and taking acare of a two yr old (who isn't potty trained and a 7 mos old.
Crystal,
I appreciate all your comments and topics on this post. I would like to share my personal story in hopes of being a blessing and encouragement to women of childbearing age to open their hearts to the Lord and to the children He will blessed them with.
I had 4 children in 6 years and only heard negative comments from family and church family. At the time my husband and I had never known any large families or been taught to have a "full quiver" heart. Under pressure, I had a tubal ligation at age 24 and two years later tried to get it reversed and ended up with a hysterectomy. This has been a great sadness to my heart as for years I longed for more children. I don't believe God ever meant for a woman to have an "empty nest" even in her forties.I knew as soon as I had the tubal that something about it just wasn't right.
Thankfully, each of my 3 married kids all have a "full quiver" heart and we've already been blessed with 7 grandchildren ages 4 months to 4 years. The Lord willing, we will have many more grandchildren. It is such a joy to be able to help my daughter and daughter-in-laws with their little ones. God is so good to us!
Please, I beg of you young women, open your heart to the Lord and His Word and be willing to do what He leads you and your husband to do regarding children. Always be submissive to your husband in this regard and pray together about it. Remember God always honors obedience to His Word and a humble heart. Where God guides, He will provide. Step out on faith and joyfully serve the Lord. You will never regret it!
Blessings,
Jackie
Heather, that was helpful. I appreciate the spirit in which it was said.
My husband and I have definitely had the Lord change our hearts on the subject of children! When we were first engaged, in the DC area, everyone thought we were nuts for getting married so "young" anyway, and the accepted wisdom was to have two kids. Then God really started working on us through challenging us about His sovereignty. As we were learning a lot about biblical standards for marriage, headship, how to be a godly wife/husband etc we really started feeling like if God was sovereign over all parts of our lives, it was disobedient to assume control over the area of children.
Then after our wedding we moved to Indiana and people have bigger families here! Plus our church is very friendly to big families. I'd say in our church "big" is 8 or more kids, "small" is 4 or less. The funny thing is, after God really worked on us to make us open to accepting any children He gives us on His time table not ours, we then had over a year of not being able to conceive (due to my having PCOS although we didn't learn that until a year was up). Finally when we got pregnant with our daughter we really understood the BLESSING of children!
Now we just pray that God would send us as many children as He wants as He sees fit. And like one of the commenters above, I'm kind of wondering if I'm pregnant right now! I plan to take a test on Saturday! :)
Heather,
I love how eloquently you shared the biblical view of having children. I think the examples in the book of Genesis alone clearly show that God opens and closes the womb. I marvel at the fact that when he bestows new life within a woman, that "He (God) visits/remembers" her. What could be more marvelous, than being an instrument for God to bring forth new life? We are so blessed by our special privilege as women.
The Bible is God's inerrant, infallable word. Some areas of scriptures are very clear. Some areas are not clear to us not because of a fault with God's word but because we as humans are imperfect and fallable. It is because all Scripture is not clear in our limited human understanding that different doctrines and denominations are formed and questions arise about what does the Bible really say. Of course every denomination believes their interpretation of Scripture is best and closest to what God wants. On those things which are not clear to us weak humans we must show Christian liberty to our brothers and sisters in Christ. Birth control and family planning are issues that are not clear. You can have two theologians who spend their lives studying scripture and they will not agree on exactly what the Bible teaches on these issues. It is not my place to say someone who thinks the "quiverfull" philosophy is out of their mind or to say that someone who practices birth control is a sinner. All I can do is say here's what I think and here's why. When I'm seeking and looking at different opinions about what the scriptures say than it is my responsibilty, first to go to the Lord in prayer and ask for guidance as I seek the Word myself and seek my husband guidance on what he sees in the Word. Everything we hear and read must be filtered through the Word of God. Never, never, never are we to take something that sounds good to us and try to make the Scriptures fit what we want to believe.
So big family or little family? It's between God and a husband and wife. The only thing any of us can ever do is to always be seeking God's will in all things of our lives. Whatever God calls us to do it is to be done with excellence not with mediocrity. Some men and women can raise large families and do it with excellance and some are simply not gifted in that way. To the woman who felt like she was not doing as well as she'd like with her children - I think it's part of our jobs as mothers to always be questioning if we could be doing better. But I also think God can be saying "This is the family I want for you." My own expereince is that after a very difficult and physically damaging second pregnancy the first inclination of me and my husband was I can't do this again, but after much prayer we realized our family wasn't complete and had our third child. After number three we felt God very clearly telling us this was it. Never in the twenty years since that third child have I doubted that God had completed our family. If you are praying and seeking God's will he will guide you in this area. Pray, pray and then pray some more. Also understand that what people believe on this issue will quite ofter go hand and hand with their views on theonomy and eschatolgy which are subjects that go beyond the scope of this blog I would suspect.
If I let my husband lead, in reference to Jackie's comment...we'd have one,maybe two children. IF THAT. He's wanted kids since he was little, but as we've been on our own as a married couple and he's realizing how expensive things are (I lived on my own throughout college, he's always been at home), he has become afraid of how expensive a kid or two (or ten!) can be. As stated before, I'm not of the quiverfull mentality...growing up Catholic, you're surrounded by huge families (and I'm part of one), but I believe that there comes a time when God says enough. 4-5 kids would be just fine with me.
I also disagree that not willing to have a huge family is indicative of "lack of maturity." Everyone has different opinions, interprets Scripture and what it says of children differently...it is by no means a lack of maturity. For some of us, just the mere fact that we now want children after saying our whole lives, "Ech, I don't like the little buggers at all!" is a huge step in our faith journey.
Zan - I hope you are expecting! To you and the other commenter, you are in my prayers, and best wishes! :)
oh, and in reading my comment...
My statement about my husband is by no means me saying that we do not trust that the Lord will provide...we know He will! Right now, my husband is just in shock at the "real world." ;) It's so easy when your parents do the shopping, the cleaning, laundry, and pay the bills. He'll come around, in time. ;)
Large families are wonderful, but I am always honestly baffled by people who want more and more, and never seem to consider adopting. Chirldren are a gift whether they come through you or the front door, and with so many, many children out there being shuffled through foster care in the States or in orphanages in foreign countries, why is it that people feel the need to have 5, 7, 10, 14 of their own, and call it generous, while ignoring the plight of these thousands of others? Can someone explain this to me?
-J.
It was very interesting to read all these comments! The topic of 'Large families' always fascinates me ;-)
I come from a family of 5 kids, and I feel that it's more on the smaller end. I'd love to have 10+ kids someday if the Lord so blesses. In my mind, 1-4 is small, 5-8 is normal, 9-11 is a large family, and 13+ is really big. However I think once you hit 5, it's sort of "all the same". With 4 or less kids, you still operate like a normal American family. But once you have five kids you have to buy everything in bulk, drive a big van, cook big meals (I've never baked in any dish smaller than a 9"x13"!), do tons of laundry, and allow a lot of extra time to get out the door to church on Sunday ;-)
I also agree with the above commentors that say let God decide. If God only wants you to have 2 kids, He will only give you 2. There's no reason you have to use birth control, etc. God will only give you what you can handle! And if you feel overwhelmed with one or two, and find that you're pregnant again, do not dispair. God will give you the grace as you need it. He's in control, let Him take control!
Zan, my symptoms were sore breasts and frequent urination and unexplained 5 pound weight gain. These are my pre-morningsickness symptoms. Also, my milk dropped off kind of suddenly. I have no idea how far along I was (8 weeks or so?). My friend found out by feeling her baby kick. Can you imagine?!
Also, I hope it wasn't implied that I thought that others shouldn't have more children due to immaturity, I am just referring to myself. I can't remember who mentioned it, but I just wanted to make sure everyone knew I am only talking about myself negatively here :) .
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