Does college guarantee less risk of divorce?
Marriage protects children. We're seeing an enormous marriage gap: college-educated people have low rates of unmarried childbearing and their risk of divorce is dropping. Meanwhile, divorce rates for the rest of America are rising, as is childbearing outside of marriage. Children born inside a marriage have all sorts of financial and psychological advantages. So one third of our children enjoy those benefits and two thirds are thrown into a high-risk environment through no fault of their own.As anyone who has read my blog for some time knows, for many reasons, I am not a big proponent of sending your children off to the hostile and often unGodly and anti-Biblical environment of many of today's secular universities and, sadly, even some Christian colleges. I am even more wary of a child going off to college if they don't have a very express and God-glorifying purpose for doing so, if they are not equipped with a Biblical worldview, and if they have not proven themselves to stand alone in the face of peer pressure.
-From a NEWSWEEK interview with Maggie Gallagher, founder of the Institute for Marriage and Public Policy, on a recent study they conducted which found that no-fault divorce leads to an increase in the divorce rate.
When I read the conclusion to the study on divorce laws above, I found it very interesting that "college-educated people have low rates of unmarried childbearing and their risk of divorce is dropping." Why do you think this is the case? Is sending our children off to college going to automatically guarantee them less risk of divorce and unmarried childbearing? What do you think we can do to help encourage our children to have strong marriages? What can we do to help strengthen marriages in society as a whole?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this or on the study in general.
posted by Crystal Paine at 2:31 PM
40 Comments:
This is just a theory of mine. It seems that education of all kinds is sometimes more encouraged in homes where a college education is expected. I went to college to be a teacher and along the way I took classes on early childhood development, literacy for children, and psychology. My baby is coming up on four months and I have been using my knowledge with her since the beginning...appropriate toys, colors, sounds, etc. that help with her development. My psychology classes have helped me approach problems in our household from a gentler perspective as well. However, I could have taught myself these things by reading with discernment. It is true...knowledge is power. Whether it comes from college classes or from your neighborhood library. Use the tools that are available. Being knowledgeable helps you to care for your children, manage your home, find time to keep your own mind engaged, and be an interesting partner to your husband.
Very interesting information! I am not sure why it would be that college educated individuals have a lower divorce rate other than the possiblity of them marrying a little older with a more defined "purpose". But I am grasping at "possiblities" with no objective evidence either way.
Speaking for myself, I do have a college degree and a Master's degree. I attended and resided at secular institutions for both and believe that it gave me a great opportunity to live out my morals and viewpoint in the world.
I would have never considered having a child outside of marriage as I saw too many people who did and the devastating effects it can have on development. As far as marriage goes... I married in grad school- I was 25. I would have been a disaster at 20-I just wasn't there spiritually or emotionally. Would I have matured sufficiently at home and not attending college? Maybe but then again maybe not. We all have different inherent qualities which require different ways to tap into them for full potential. Besides what better way to deomonstrate Godly love to college students then from another student?
I am rambling and afraid I am not quite making my point. So I will sit back an enjoy reading the other comments.
These are my own opinions. I think college educated people have lower rates if unmarried childbearing for several reasons. First of all, if they are attending college, it is because they are career minded. They do not want anything getting in the way of their career aspirations. I have known of a few girls I went to high school with who got pregnant in college, but aborted the child because a baby did not fit into their plan at that time. I like how they use the term childbearing instead of pregnancy. Their risk of divorce is dropping I think because a lot of couples live together before marriage. They may say they are "rooming" together to save on the cost of off-campus living. If you live together before marriage for two years, your chance of divorce after marriage drops astronomically. I am in no way suggesting living together as acceptable.
I think we can help our children to have strong marriages by being supportive and leading by example. How do we show love, honor, respect in our homes? Are we teaching our children how to handle conflict in a healthy way? I think our children need to see us praying not only for them but for their future spouses. Perhaps, when they get older they should have another person or couple in the church mentor them. I am a firm believer in premarital classes..things like deciding before the walk down the aisle if the wife will work, who will pay bills, all the little things that make up day to day life in a marriage. I stumbled across Women At Home University's website. I believe it is run by a pastor and his wife. The husband encouraged the wife to read as much as she could on things pertaining to being a housewife, a wife, and a mother. It is a wonderful site full of the books she has found to be helpful, divided into "years".
To strengthen marriage in society as whole, I think this is an area churches could "step up". Offer marriage enrichment days, counseling services, marriage retreats, mentoring groups. I suggest this not only for other couples in the church, but for anyone to attend. Perhaps, have mens morning out and have the speaker focus on marriage related topics. Same for wives. I really enjoyed Stormie Omartians Power of a Praying Wife. Maybe prayer teams could be set up for marriages in trouble. Maybe the church could have the youth group do a free childcare night as a mission so that parents could have an evening out without the added cost of childcare.
I am looking forward to reading other opinions and suggestions!
I find Sarah's comments quite interesting as it relates to "Career aspirations". My counterpoint is in many liberal arts colleges students do not have clear career aspirations. I atteneded a large liberal arts ivy league college and honestly a good number of students had no idea what they wanted out of life. They were enrolled in liberal arts majors with no clear career path in mind. Many were just kids wading through life waiting for the next step to come.
I do agree that with the first poster that ones opionions regarding college are greatly defined by the role education played in their parents' life and what focus had been put on it during the educational process. I don't think not attending college was ever presented as a true option for me. Nor had I ever considered it.
I think we need to be careful about how we place people in little boxes with labels. To the best of my knowledge- the only 2 people I know who have had abortions did not attend college and were unmarried and were terrified of how they would care for a child. The one girl I know in college finished school and eventually married the father and have had a a wonderful marriage for the last 20 years. There are all kinds of people in all different walks for life.
There are great Christian women in college and at home as well has immoral women at home and in college. I love reading the comments.
My theory is that college educated women are putting off having children or not having them at all. Also, the divorce rate is dropping because people are living together rather than commiting in marriage.
As far as helping improve marriages being and example and teaching others what God says are good places to start. So are holding friends and family accountable to the commitment they made to their spouse.
I can think of a few things. First, people who go to college get married later. They are bound to be more mature. And while I don't agree with our societies movement toward putting off marriage, waiting until you are mature enough is vital (so the real question is, why are we maturing more slowly?) Secondly, people who go to college will have much greater financial security, generally speaking. Finances are one of the biggest stress factors in a marriage. Thirdly, people who succeed in college are, again speaking generally, more disciplined as a whole. Of course, marriage is a discipline and will be more successful the greater the amount of self-denial practiced by the people inside the marriage. And lastly, people who go on to finish college are much more likely to come from stable and less dysfunctional households. Maybe, I'm way off base here. Sarah- Where have you seen studies that support living together beforehand lowers risk of divorce? I have seen the exact opposite. (not trying to be argumentative, genuinely curious:) Great topic.
I was always under the impression from my reading that individuals who live together prior to marriage have a higher rate of divorce.
I think the only way to prove or disprove the theories here are with some information that was not provided in the post.
To clearly determine education increasing marriage success vs educated people living together without marriage we would need to know if the number of college educated people marrying has stayed the same or gone down.
Without that piece of the puzzle no real generalization, on either side, can be made.
Anonymous said:
Thirdly, people who succeed in college are, again speaking generally, more disciplined as a whole. Of course, marriage is a discipline and will be more successful the greater the amount of self-denial practiced by the people inside the marriage. And lastly, people who go on to finish college are much more likely to come from stable and less dysfunctional households.
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That's one thing I was thinking of - that people who go to college and finish college may be more driven or disciplined than the typical person who flounders and doesn't start and/or finish anything. I can see where the floundering non-finishers would tend to not be as committed or sticking with things and this would definitely lead to more divorce - not sticking it out when the tough times come.
I wouldnt say college guarantees there will be no divorce- because thats not possible. However, I can definitely see how college educated partners would be less likely to divorce. Marrying a little bit later instead of right out of high school allows for the people involved to mature and have many experiences. I believe being in an academic environment with lots of people from varying backgrounds allows a person to figure out and understand their beliefs and goals. I'm attending a ' secular' state university and my beliefs havent been compromised. I am actually getting married next October- I'll be 24.My fiance will be 26. There's no way I could have gotten married at 20, and if I had, there's no way it would have worked. There's just something about the college experience- learning new ideas, being challenged academically,socially, spiritually..it helps one figure out where they want to be in life. Just my opinion!
Kassie
Some of you have mentioned marrying later is one thing which equals less divorce and yet, hundreds of years ago, young people married much earlier and there was much less divorce. Doesn't it seem that most young people today are maturing later (or, some people seem to never mature at all but be 40-year-old adolescents)? Why is this?
I think a lot of it has to do with the expectations put upon young people today, or more accurately, the lack thereof of any worthwhile expectations. The trend I find all too common is that teens are expected to be rebellious, to be lazy, to be difficult for their parents, to goof off and waste almost all of their time.
I submit to you that it doesn't have to be this way. If we focused on raising our children to be responsible adults, rather than expecting them to spend years of their life in worthless, selfish pursuits, perhaps we would have more young people more mature and taking more responsibility and ready for marriage at a younger age. I also think that delaying marriage for self-gratification only breeds more independence and more selfishness.
Thoughts, anyone? Feel free to agree or disagree with me or any of the other comments so long as you can do so in a respectful manner. I love a good discussion with differing viewpoints every now and then around here!
This is an interesting subject, Crystal, because I see both sides. True, people did marry much younger, and there was less divorce. However, people weren't living as long as we do now, nor were there opportunities for things such as higher education to the general population- just a select few. Thirdly, divorce wasnt allowed, and unhealthy marriages were just swept under the rug. Am I an advocate of divorce? No way. But awareness of certain problems- spousal abuse being a big one- didnt exist, and wasnt even considered abuse. People couldnt go to a marriage counselor. To sum up my rambling- I'm glad I dont live back then, but I dont think constant no fault divoce is the answer either.
And by the way, what do you consider ' old ' to get married? Considering the average life span now..I guess I dont see 23, 24, 25, 26, etc to be 'old'.
Kassie
Do you consider getting an education to be lazy and self gratifying?
I personally worked my way through college - working full time and going to school full time. I am not sure how people like me fit in to this picture.
People hundreds of years ago didn't necessarily marry that much younger than Americans do now. It depended on where they lived (on average, northern Europeans married later than southern Europeans) and who they were (the rich generally married earlier than the middling and poor). For instance, in sixteenth- and seventeenth-century England, the average age of first marriage for women was about 25 and for men about 27. Most people went into domestic or agricultural service away from their natal households in their midteens, worked and saved for about ten years, and only then got married when they could support an independent nuclear family. Moreover, about 20 percent of women never married at all, which, along with the late age of first marriage, helped keep the population in check. This system is known to historians as the northwest European marriage pattern. Interestingly, however, their counterparts in the New World married much earlier and more frequently because land was so much more readily available.
When I first read it I thought like many of you.
1) College people are obviously people that are capable of starting something they finish!!!
I started college 3 things. Never finished. I've been engaged twice- never married. :(
2) Money is the number one reason people get divorced. People who have a degree earn more.
3) People always say they mature in college. I imagine maturity helps in marriage!!!
4) Maybe they feel satisfied. Maybe in college they had a chance to travel and have experiences. So when they get married, they feel content.
As a 23-year old non-college grad I don't feel content. I wish I had done more with my life. There is so much I wish I'd done. I see a huge difference between me and my mom. She has a masters and friends she has known since college. She can do so much more in life. She is much more content.
Just some of my ideas.
-Laura
By the way, I thought I should mention that I completely don't think that eras in the past were perfect or didn't have their fair share of problems. However, I do think that there was a lot less room for selfishness in bygone days and people were forced to step up to the plate and take more responsibility because you had to. And I think there is much we can learn from this.
We're reading the biography of David Livingstone right now and he and all his siblings worked 14 hour days at a mill from the time they were young. Although I am not at all encouraging we should have young children in the work force, I couldn't help but think about how much more responsibility these young children had and how much more mature they probably were as a result. No wonder so many young men started college at age 12 or 13 or 14 - and have you read the requirements to get into some of the prestigious universities back then? It puts us to shame!
As far as whether I consider getting a degree lazy and self-gratifying - I guess that would depend on why you are getting a degree. :) If you are getting an education so that you can further glorify the Lord, I wouldn't call that in anyway lazy and self-gratifying. If you are getting a degree to fulfill your own self-interests and for no higher purpose than yourself and selfish interests, well, you be the judge - it might not be lazy, but it most certainly would be self-gratifying in my book.
Oddly enough, my experience has been the opposite. I'm 23 so I have alot of friends are newly graduated from college, and the majority of them are the most immature and confused people I know. Not to mention, here in Michigan, we have one of the worst unemployment rates in the country so many of them are having difficult times finding jobs that will pay off their debt.
It seems like many people in my generation have a really difficult time growing up and taking on responsibilities. I hope we can teach our children better!
Laura - please, please do not think that just because you don't have a degree you "can't do anything with your life" - do not buy into that lie!
Degrees can be helpful at certain times in certain fields, but they certainly don't mean everything and they definitely do not buy you success or happiness. And there are plenty of other ways to get an education outside of the four walls of a university!
I never went to college and I have no regrets. I am extremely fulfilled, love my life, and have done all sorts of things and in no way have ever felt that not having a degree has hampered my ability to "do things." There is so much potential for young women and glorifying the Lord is not prerequisite upon a college degree.
Look around you, start looking for needs, for ministry opportunities, for ways to reach out, start praying and asking the Lord to open doors.
Find your fulfillment and contentment in the Lord first, deepen your relationship with Him, and start looking for ways to reach out and serve others and before you know it, you will see God use you in great mighty ways - far beyond what you probably ever dreamed or imagined!
Crystal said: Some of you have mentioned marrying later is one thing which equals less divorce and yet, hundreds of years ago, young people married much earlier and there was much less divorce.
____
That is true, but you have to remember that divorce laws were not always as liberal as they are now. Divorces were very difficult to get at one time in history. Just because they had lower rates back in the day does not necessarily mean that marriages were happier or more Christian.
I think it's nearly impossible to make sweeping generalizations as to why this or that happens, because there are always the many exceptions. But may I make these points?
You see, let's take Christians out of the equation. There really aren't that many anyway to skew the results of such a study, I would think. So, let's look at secular people in our country.
Those who attend college vs. those who do not attend college. Those who do not attend college are more likely to have grown up in a lower income home, with less emphasis on education, less active parenting, fewer good role models. Now, yes, there are exceptions ... but it is the higher likelihood. They tend to have fewer goals, get married earlier to someone very like them, not be able to afford a lifestyle that allows them to put time into their children,... (remember, I am referring to secular society).
Compare that with the studies of those who do go on to college. They are more likely to have had a higher income, involved parents who helped with homework and emphasized education, .... They have put off childbearing primarily through medical means (be it abortion or "safe sex"). Once they graduate, they are frequently saddled with a lot of debt and the need to begin their career ... so they put it all off until longer. When they finally do get married, they put off having children "until they can afford it". Now, this doesn't make them any more special than others and they will have their own issues of selfishness to deal with ... but you can't deny that in the secular world, time equals more perspective and maturity. So, they are likely to have more money, more maturity, more education .... And you know that education (whether it be by seeing friends or parents make mistakes or do things right, by hearing about avoiding abusive situations and the best ways to raise children, by having the perspective of having learned about many things - whether you learned it by reading or by attending college) ... education really does make a difference in someone's life. They have fewer children ... and thus, fewer stresses on them to bring out their ugly sides which we all have. We can avoid bringing out our ugly sides by avoiding stress (but that never grew anyone up, now did it? - just making a comment on lifestyles). Truly if you make life as easy as possible, things really do go better on the surface.
Now, take "Christians" (in quotes because I'm thinking of those who claim to be Christians in the studies that I've read). The divorce rate is high. I think it is a lack of education as well. A lack of church families pulling together, taking a stand for holiness and teaching believers the whole truth and nothing but the truth so that they aren't sucked into thinking marriage is for their happiness. I think education and lack of stressors makes a tremendous difference in marriage survival ... especially (so don't go thinking about Depression-era families) in our society which has not taught children to be tough at all. We are very soft and do not persevere through trials that do not benefit us (that we see). And frequently, we do not persevere through trials even if they DO benefit us.
This is so not short enough for a comment. But I kept thinking while I was writing!
So, now, take the children we are raising. Do they need time, education and money to make it? No. That was the secular world I am talking about. I have a high school degree, but am highly read and have been asked to teach college-level courses because of my experiences. I have the wisdom and discernment from knowing the scriptures. I am happily married with four little children to a devoted man. We will celebrate 10 years this fall and there is no doubt in our minds that we will not make it until death do us part. We are educated in the ways of the Lord and that is far better than any other education that can come. In fact, I would beg the point that marriages in the past didn't only survive because divorce was rarely an option ... I think they primarily survived because people had been raised in Judeo-Christian values, whether or not they were believers. And those principles have proven time and time again to work for people - believers or not.
Now I am not "knocking" college. I am just addressing your question of whether or not college is necessary to help marriages succeed. I am sooooooo sorry this is so long! I'm embarrassed.
I personally have a college degree and WANT my children to go to college so they can support their wives and children and don't have to struggle for the rest of their lives. I am a woman and I do work full-time as a teacher and when I first read Crystal's blog I thought she was nuts! Mostly because I was raised to believe that the only way to be successful was through a college education. But, the more I read, the more I understand your points of view Crystal. You are DEFINITELY not wasting your life because you didn't go to college. I admire you so much and find you to be one of the most intelligent people I have ever seen. I think you are a great mother and wife and I am so impressed with the love you have for your husband and children.
Now, I still don't necessarily agree with everything you say... and I think college is a good thing... even for girls... BUT I also see your point of view. Before I started reading (which has been over a year ago now) I had a very one track mind and you have opened my mind to so much more. I am still going to work full-time, and I still like public education, and my children will still attend a public school, and I will still encourage them to attend college. But that is a difference of opinion and it doesn't make either of us bad people or mothers. We both love our children with all of our hearts and want what is best for them. We may go about it differently, but neither of us are wrong. I want to thank you for opening my eyes to that and I love your blog and will continue to read and learn and grow through your writing.
I think one of the ways to teach your children to have a strong marriage is to show them one yourself.
My parents had everything against them when they got married, they have been married 30 years with 11 children and have pretty much defied the odds. According to statistics they should be divorced, but my mom has said before that she thinks that because everyone said they would be divorced, it made them more determined to not even think about that. Neither of them have degrees, but my dad taught college level classes for some time until they wanted someone with a degree to do it. Degrees do not equal knowledge. In some classes if you show up you get a passing grade......
My mom does not have a college degree, in fact she did not know basic math until after she was married when my dad taught her, but she is now a midwife.
I think among secular students, that maybe college classes teach them maybe how to help with relationships, but otherwise, I do not see how it is relevent.
The one study I read about children that were smart that had one thing in common was that their family always sat down together to eat at the dinner table. That one was interesting I thought!
I may have missed something when reading the blog, but the way I look at it there are two separate issues here. My opinion is that whether or not one goes to college does not necessarily have anything much to do with a good marriage or not. Teaching our children that marriage is a commitment, that divorce should never be a consideration and being good role models of love and submission will benefit them more than anything else. I also do not feel that being independent is a bad thing, nor does it does not mean one is selfish. Being Christ -centered is the issue. College is not for everyone nor is marriage. We must each allow the Spirit to lead us and not look at these polls and opinions of man to be our guide. I know that marriage can and should protect children, but in reality it does not always do that. We have to face the unfortunate reality that just because two people are married there is no guarantee that children will have the financial or psychological benefits that are the ideal.
Carla
Carla: Exactly.
The point of this post was not to say that college education makes better marriages, but rather to make one think - as I like to do myself. :) To think about where marriage has gone wrong and what we can do to encourage strong, Biblical marriages. I just thought the results of the study showing those who were college educated had stronger marriages and less childbearing outside of marriage was an interesting statistic. We definitely shouldn't be living our life based upon the results of surveys, of course. However, they can make us think and we can learn from them.
There is no one guarantee against divorce, but there is much we can do to promote and encourage and strengthen Godly marriages and that was my hope with this post - to make people think about what we can do to hold up a Biblical model for our children, how we can best prepare and equip our children for the future, and how we can practically make a difference in this area in our society.
I believe that raising our children up in the "nurture and admonition of the Lord," setting a Godly example before them in our lives and in our marriage, teaching responsibility from a young age, and equipping our children with a Biblical worldview are some of the greatest gifts we can give to our children.
Well, this was an interesting study! First off, before I forget, I'm also interested in what study shows that living together before marriage for two years decreases the risk of divorce? As someone else mentioned, everything I've seen says opposite of that.
As to having a college degree meaning someone is older before getting married, not necessarily. My DH and I married at 20 and 19, respectively, right after our sophomore year. Due to fertility problems, we didn't have children until 7 years into our marriage, but that's another story. We both did finish our degrees, but DH is now military and I'm a SAHM so our income is not really higher because of them. We just celebrated our 14th anniversary last week.
My thought on this is that college in ITSELF did not make our marriage stronger, but having parents who had great expectations for our lives DID, and in both our families those expectations included college (and I was raised in small conservative Christian schools and homeschooled for a while). In our case, fertility problems aside, those expectations also account for why we were pure until marriage and thereby not contributing to the unmarried childbearing rate.
Interesting discussion!
Cathy
The short answer:
I believe my daughters should seek a college education because
1-If their husbands should die, a degree provides more income for less time worked
2-I believe that the glory of God is intelligence, and we should seek to understand exactly how this world works and it's governing laws. In order to teach the future generation, I believe all women should feel confident in their education in science, history, culture, etc. as well as home economics.
I find this discussion to be useful in helping me refine my opinions--and why I feel the way I do.
I was raised in a strong Christian home where both of my parents had college degrees. My mother is the youngest of 12, 10 of whom have college degrees (one went into the police force and the other died as a child). The expectation in my home has always been that we will be educated in order to better serve our families.
Crystal, I wholeheartedly agree that a selfish education can be detrimental. However, I started off my education to be selfish and it turned out to be the best blessing for my son that I could imagine.
University taught me how to think critically on all levels, to recognize and be more aware of worldly influences on my life, and how to successfully relate to others. It has been invaluable and though I never intend to use it professionally I am grateful to have it as a backup in case my husband is ever disabled or taken from me prematurely.
My expectation is that all of my children will obtain some kind of post-high school education to prepare them to be active participants in society (and I don't mean working, I mean serving)
As far as the divorce question goes, all I know is I want my children to understand that marriage is a commitment before God, should not be entered into lightly, and is something worth working and fighting for.
Sorry for the novel!
It is so interesting that you posted about starting a group in your area. I just posted about a similar issue today, wishing that I had the opportunity for such a group where I live. I would love to be a part if only I lived closer to you. I am afraid it would be a bit of a drive from Ohio. You seem to have so much to offer other young women. May God bless this new adventure for you and all involved.
Sarah said: "First of all, if they are attending college, it is because they are career minded. They do not want anything getting in the way of their career aspirations."
Whoa, whoa, whoa! ;) I can assure you that's not the case in my family. Out of 4 kids, my baby sister and I are very much "homemakers". But since we weren't blessed to be married by 19, we HAD to go to college or pay rent to our parents or live on our own. My dad's rules. He put them in so he wouldn't have "lazy" children - he wanted us productive, either in college (which he was willing to pay) or earning money and paying them rent.
So my sister and I went to college so we could continue to live with our parents. Both of us BADLY burned out after 2 years. I lucked out, I got married, I get to be a stay-at-home-wife now. My sister has a guy, but neither of them are in a position to support a life of their own yet.
So not all of us going to college are career-minded, unless there are classes for getting our Mrs. ;)
Neither of my parents went to college. They were on their own at 17 and 18. Earning money, paying rent and eating was more important than getting a pretty paper with a degree stamped on it. Also, my mom became a Christian after they got married, my dad didn't. Recipe for disaster? They just celebrated their 26th anniversary. :)
My husband did go to college, got a degree and he's currently making 1/4 of my dad's income in 2000. So a degree doesn't mean more money, a.k.a more security for the marriage.
Money isn't an issue or a source of tension in my marriage. We live below our means, happily. The simple version is that he earns the money, I (don't) spend it. ;)
Anyhow... you probably could say that people who homeschool are also less likely to divorce. Hard to work and teach kids by yourself.
I don't know that I want to make any general statements or conclusions here but... neither of my parents went to college and they have been married 50+ years. Neither of my husband's parents went to college and they have been married 30+ years. My husband didn't go to college and I only have a two year associates degree. (Which I've never done anything with.) We have been married for 14 years and went into our marriage verbally having each said, "Divorce will never be an option." Now, we both come from strong, faithful to the Lord families and that was imparted to us. Without the Lord, I don't know how people can make it through life in general, let alone marriage. I don't know that college is really a factor. I am not planning on any of my three daughters going to college unless God specifically directs it. I do plan to instill entreprenuerial skills in them so they can earn from home. I am open to my son going to college but there are plenty of entreprenuerial paths that he can take with out college also. College must be a God led path for this family.
For those of you who have said you believe one should go to college in order to get an education or have intelligence, may I ask: Do you believe that getting a college degree is the only way to get an education? Why or why not? Do you not think there may be viable alternatives for learning things and gaining intelligence outside of the usual 4-8 years of university model?
I have a question-did I read once that you have a certificate that you acquired in some form of law-legal aid so you could talk to your husband about law easier?I was realzing that you do have some education after your homeschooling years,point is that some ladies you could get education that way in case for some reason they need to work.Plus every so often you should mention that you have some schooling after the homeschooling years.
As far as college degrees saving a marriage-strange and wierd to hink that!I have a non Christian brother who between his wife and him had 7 degrees -divorced.A pastor and his wife had between them 4 degrees-divorced.
I would have to say having a Godly marriage where the husband is the leader in the marrige is probably the best way to lessen a divorce.College degree or not!
Lots of interesting stuff here…
If you live together before marriage for two years, your chance of divorce after marriage drops astronomically.
Actually I’ve heard the opposite – that living together before marriage increases your risk of divorce. I’m not sure if it’s because people who live together tend to have more commitment issues (since they want to “test out” the marriage first) or because they tend to be less religious and therefore more open to divorce. Maybe a little of both.
I agree with a lot of the commenters here that the reason college-educated people have a lower divorce rate is because they tend to come from higher-income homes, have better role models growing up, and tend to marry when they’re more mature.
This certainly doesn’t mean that most people aren’t mature enough to marry young. I have a college degree and I also married young for this day and age – 23. My husband and I actually met at college. Maybe the experience of college tends to make people more mature, since they have to live on their own? I’m not sure. I’m very, very glad I went to college – it was a great experience. I personally don’t think education is ever a waste, even if you don’t end up using your degree to make a lot of money. I think the college experience is valuable in and of itself, even if you end up being a stay-at-home mom. Plus you can always put your degree to use when your kids are grown or through a home business.
I think Crystal is right that people used to mature much faster. I don’t think it’s because teens are incapable of being immature; it’s because we expect them to be immature and we don’t give them enough responsibility. The whole concept of adolescence is actually an invented one; for most of human history such a concept didn’t exist.
On sort of a related note, here’s an interesting article by Eastern Orthodox author Frederica Mathews-Greene about how it’s better for people to marry and have children at a young age:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/114/story_11415_1.html
Also, an article by a psychologist about how teens are far more capable than we give them credit for:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/rss/index.php?term=pto-20070302-000002&print=1
Sorry for the long comment!!
Crystal,
First, let me say I believe the only way to make our marriage stronger is following God's calling, living out our role as women (for men - their role as men), and giving to our marriage selflessly. We don't *need* college to have a good marriage... and college, indeed, is no recipe for happiness.
Please note that I'm currently preparing for my final exams. I'm supposed to graduate from college very soon, so I think I can share my experience. College gave me knowledge, sure. But was it the only way to get knowledge? Nope. Did college contribute, in any way, to my general education? Nope. Did college make me more mature?.. Well, I certainly became more mature during my college years. But it was not thanks to college - I'm simply a couple of years older now, and more experienced! Learning on our own, meeting new people, volunteering or doing community work can make a young person mature just like being in college... no, probably more.
We have SO many options for learning. Online courses; books; learning groups; in college, you have classes and exams. You have schedules and deadlines, and cramming your short-term memory with facts you'll forget in a month. For me, it's not exactly the ideal environment for being educated, and I'm sure many people with degrees feel the same.
If I'm ever blessed with children, I won't tell them, 'don't go to college, it's evil'. But I'll warn them about the negative influence of secular environment. And I won't say, 'go to college or your lives will be ruined'. Go to college if you have a calling that will help you bring glory to God (for women: if you think it will help you excel in your feminine role).
This can be a very touchy topic. I am a college educated "mostly" stay-at-home-mother (I teach extremely part time (less than 10 hours/week) at local community college during the Fall semester. Now to answer your question, while I find formal education to be very valuable, I do not feel that it is
"the only way" for a person to be educated and "intelligent". We could go around in circles trying to define intelligence anyway. I know many, many people who are not college education who are very intelligent, knowledgeable, and cultured. I tell my students that if they only confine their learning to the classroom that they will live very impoverished lives. However, just because formal education is not the only way to be an educated person, does not mean it is without value and self-serving. In my opinion, one of the most valuable things about formal, traditional college education is being in a community of scholars (both professors and students) and having your views challenged and questioned both verbally in writing. When you have to logically defend your position in fast-faced class discussion, you develop certain valuable habits of mind and your views are strengthened and refined. Likewise, in writing you have the benefit of a mentor (the professor) to help you hone your grammar, mechanics, and style as well as help you to write in a more logical manner. I am a voracious reader and love classic literature and history, but reading in isolation is not the same as having lively discussions and writing critical essays.
As far as pursuing formal education being selfish, is my husband selfish for pursuing a Masters degree engineering so he can provide for our family? Am I selfish for pursuing a Masters degree in education so that I have the professional credentials and skills to influence the lives of young people in a positive way? Am I selfish to want to have the ability to step in and provide for our family if for some reason my husband (who is currently an Army helicopter pilot serving in Iraq) becomes incapacitated? Is it selfish for me to use my background in education to serve in the community and in my church? Is it selfish to spend an hour during the evening reading a Jane Austin novel? You may say that improving yourself and your mind is good for your children, which I agree with, but why can't the same be said about a college education? Many things that are good and wholesome can also be considered self-serving. I am a runner. Running is in many ways self-serving. I do it because I enjoy it and because it improves my health. On the other hand, being healthy and having the stamina to pursue the outdoors family activities my husband and I both find valuable is important to my family. I only dedicate 30 minutes three times a week to doing it, and mostly run on a treadmill in my basement while my daughter naps. I admit that I would feel very selfish if I were putting in the hours of running required to train for longer races. This is another area that you can go around and around about. We are flawed, sinful humans and everything that we do has a degree of selfishness to it.
The culture on college campuses is not entirely hedonistic. My undergraduate university put a huge emphasis on service and there was peer pressure to serve. If you were not helping the local community in some way, people wondered what was wrong with you. And yes, I went to large, top 25 public university. There are many conservative student organizations springing up on college campuses. At my alma mater, a group call NEW (Network of Enlightened Women) was founded to counter feminist influences and New has since spread to many other colleges. There was a robust Christian community as well. I was able to incorporate my faith into numerous term papers as well.
Crystal, as a regular reader of your blog, I do find you to be a very intelligent and well-educated young woman. As someone who is college educated, I not think it automatically makes me “smarter” than someone who is not. On the other hand, my college experience, both at the undergraduate and graduate levels, was immensely rewarding and valuable and I will not say otherwise in order support those who pursue education through other channels. Both paths are valuable and can be used for good or for harm. I think it is an attitude and heart issue.
Mrs. H
I would like to address Laura's comment about not having a college degree.
Don't spend your time worrying about this one bit! Instead, spend a little time researching all of the Americans that have contributed so much to our country without a college education. You can too!
I do not have a degree and, am actually better off and happier because of it. I have my own business and am in the midst of starting another one. I also assist my husband with his buisness. You can be a happy successful adult without a degree. (and by success, I also consider being a contented wife and/or mother as the pinnacle of success.
My husband and I are life long learners and enjoy learning new things and researching topics-- just not at a college. Don't give up, Laura and don't ever feel badly about not pursuing college: )
Yes, Tammy C, I have my paralegal certification which I obtained through a year of very intense studies from a private Christian correspondence law school. It is the equivalent of an associate's degree and I got it after Jesse and I started courting so that I could be understand "legalese" and assist him in going through law school and then being an attorney. It has helped me tremendously in that regard and I don't regret at all spending the year to get it.
That said, the route I took was very much not the traditional route and that is really what I want to encourage people to think about - that we don't get into a one-size-fits-all education mode. That the only way to be successful or fulfilled is by the traditional 4-8 years of university model. There are many other ways to learn and many other alternatives to this route. In preparing our children for their future, I think it is good to truly seek the Lord for His direction and explore all the options, not just blindly follow along with the masses because that what everyone else does or because we don't know what else to do.
I don't think there are guarantees of anything. But in my opinion, an environment where ANY kind of education and open communication regarding values, morals, and sex education is bound to have less instances of breaking those values and morals.
I know that most of my college educated friends struggle less with jobs that don't pay enough, and have secure careers. Since money is often a main cause for divorce, that might be an area for further exploration as well.
I think there are reasons and exceptions for everything, and nothing is ever set in stone.
In response to the question Crystal posed regarding whether or not you need college to get an education....
Depends on what you want the education to give you. Some careers require an university based education and for many of us in our 30s and 40s online education was clearly not an option in our day.
I think the purpose of the education defines how it can be earned.
Just a few thoughts on college...
If college is self-gratifying (if you don't have a clear purpose) wouldn't any education be self-gratifying? Where do you draw the line? Is it, you should only be able to do basic reading and math? Or should you not have any education at all if you don't yet have a purpose? We have to be careful not to make generalizations, or to say that something, like college, isn't okay just because it isn't the norm or required (like grade school is).
What I also find rather confusing is that some people don't want their children to go to college because their faith will be tested. Isn't that part of being a Christian though? Did Jesus ever say, "Don't leave your Christian community because you might be tempted?" Wouldn't it be for the glory of God if Christians went to secular universities and spread the word and lived as examples? Yes, some people will fall to temptation, but they probably would have fallen no matter where they were. It's easy to have a "strong faith" when you're surrounded by like-minded people, the real test comes when you have to stand alone. We send missionaries off to other countries and secular environments, why not college? And why do we assume that boys are better equipped to handle temptation and peer pressure than girls?
There was a time when it was unheard of to have girls educated at all. Now we've accepted that girls need the same basic education as boys, but now college isn't right for them? I'm not saying that every girl should go to college (just as I'm not saying that every boy should), but I don't think it's right to just decide that none of your girls or children should. Do we assume that we know God's plan for our children before they are even born or reach college age? I think we have to be careful to know the difference between "our" decision and God's decision.
As marriage and college, statistics can be bent however you want them to be. What makes a good marriage is preparation, maturity, and of course the guidance of God. The same could be said for the decision of education and everything else in life.
Anonymous:
I don't think anyone here is making sweeping generalizations about college always being wrong. What I am asking is: Is it always right? I am arguing that I don't believe it is. You would be surprised at how many well-meaning, Godly Christians feel that a college education is a *must* and that those who do not get a college education are missing out on life. That is the mentality I am trying to encourage people to re-examine.
You are absolutely right that any education or anything done for self-gratification is wrong. Period. And no one here is saying otherwise. I think it is just as wrong for a young person to stay home and be lazy and selfish with their time and live for self as it is to pursue college and a career for self. As Christians, we are called to live for something higher than self. We are called to glorify the Lord.
As I said in my blog post:
"I am not a big proponent of sending your children off to the hostile and often unGodly and anti-Biblical environment of many of today's secular universities and, sadly, even some Christian colleges. I am even more wary of a child going off to college if they don't have a very express and God-glorifying purpose for doing so, if they are not equipped with a Biblical worldview, and if they have not proven themselves to stand alone in the face of peer pressure."
I think we have so lost sight in the Christian community of the great and incredible potential of young women. Many parents are not imparting any sort of vision to their daughters and instead are just encouraging them to follow along with the world’s prescribed post-high school path –
You graduate from high school, you get a job and go to college.
Now, while I don’t believe that getting a job or going to college are always wrong things for young women to do, I think we need to carefully and prayerfully consider what God would have us do before we just jump head first into what is considered the “norm.”
If a family has sought the Lord and thought through all the options and determined what the end goal and purpose is and college is how the Lord is directing them, go for it.
However, please do not go to college just because everyone is doing it, or because your best friend is, or because you don’t know what else to do. That is the worst reason of all to go to college.
If you are a young person going to college, I strongly encourage you to make sure to hold everything you are being taught up to the light of Scripture, to not be afraid to stand alone, to surround yourself with Godly mentors, to stay under the direction and blessing of your parents, and to be really particular in your friendships and social activities.
I'd also highly recommend that you live at home, if at all possible, and that you stay active in a good church and in ministry opportunities. I’ve seen so many young people fall into the “me-me-me” mentality when they spend the majority of their time in the college bubble of campus life and social activities. Don’t get stuck there.
And talk to your parents and wise older people about what you are learning. Don't just blindly believe whatever you are told by a professor.
If at all possible – and I would say don’t go to college if this is not possible - stay out of debt. I don't know how many couples I know where the wife has to work or has had to work or where they are in very difficult financial times due to student loans. Avoid college debt like the plague.
All this to say, I am not opposed to the 4-8 year university model in all circumstances - I definitely think that God calls some people to this. But I don't think we need to think it is a prerequisite to Godliness or a fulfilled life, nor that we should *require* it of our children just because that's what everyone else does. We need to be seeking the Lord with our children for His individual call on their life.
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