Trusting the Author of life
Becky writes beautifully of their journey to family un-planning (not for younger readers).
I loved her closing sentiments:
Though some think it incredulous, my husband and I have found it so freeing to entrust this aspect of our lives over to the Lord. Instead of worrying over when or how or what-if, leaving our family size in God's hands relieves us to focus on training and raising the precious children God sees fit to give us. His timing is perfect and we can rest in that!
Related: You must read this excellent post by Doug Phillips, In Memory of the Woman Who Chose Life. Although I think we need to be speaking out strongly and loudly on the ills and evils of abortion and abortive birth control, sometimes the most compelling case we can make is to hold up a beautiful picture of the blessings of life.
I loved her closing sentiments:
We have really learned that He is the author of life - a phrase that is batted around so much in pro-life circles but that seems to be little understood. He is the only one who can create life, and He has a perfect plan for each child He brings into the world, regardless of the circumstances of that baby's conception.In an age where everyone is seeking to plan and time and space their family size according to what they can afford or what works best in their schedule, we've truly lost sight of Who is the original Author and Creator of life.
Though some think it incredulous, my husband and I have found it so freeing to entrust this aspect of our lives over to the Lord. Instead of worrying over when or how or what-if, leaving our family size in God's hands relieves us to focus on training and raising the precious children God sees fit to give us. His timing is perfect and we can rest in that!
Related: You must read this excellent post by Doug Phillips, In Memory of the Woman Who Chose Life. Although I think we need to be speaking out strongly and loudly on the ills and evils of abortion and abortive birth control, sometimes the most compelling case we can make is to hold up a beautiful picture of the blessings of life.
posted by Crystal Paine at 3:46 PM
42 Comments:
Speaking of Authors....the Bible is the only book......that when you read it the author is always present. Pam, South Bend
Both very good links! It is just within the last few months that I have heard of others giving this area of their life completely to God (which is as it should be). I am ready and wanting to so the same. Perhaps still with just a little bit of a shaky heart, but with much confidence and peace from Him! I am very happy that He has brought me to this new & correct way of thinking! :) I am sad for the wrong way of thinking about children especially among "Christians," particularly in regard to the pill.
Hey, I wasn't able to leave a comment on your book give-away post, but would love to be entered for the book. You have so many entries maybe you aren't taking anymore. Anyway, I appreciate your website and look forward to your e-mails. God bless you and your precious family.
Leah - I'll go enter you! It seems like all of the entries have slowed the commenting system down a bit. My apologies on that!
I know that it is common for couples who feel led to give their family size to God to be a bit nervous at first. I know that we assumed that we would have a houseful (which we really would love), but as of now - five years later - we still only have the two boys we already had. They are now almost 10 and 6 1/2 - and what I wouldn't give for the blessing of another baby! But so far, God has made our family size much smaller than we ever planned. I have to trust that He knows what is best - whatever the size our family turns out to be...
~Jenny
Thank you for posting on this subject Crystal - it is something my husband and I are passionate about. Praise God for all those faithful couples who truly place their God-given fertility totally in His loving hands!
I have a somewhat personal question I wonder if some of you would like to take on. What should a woman do if she feels that God should be in control of the family size, but her husband is firmly in the birth control camp? It breaks my heart to think of no more babies. I don't know what to do or say anymore. The man of the house has spoken, but I don't feel he's right about this one.
Anonymous:
Though I know some would disagree with me on this, I encourage you to trust the Lord to lead through your husband. He is ultimately responsible before the Lord for the decisions he makes as head of your home. Trust God to lead through him. Love him, support him, pray for him, joyfully follow him, do all you can to relieve his load, and lay your burdens and cares concerning this at the feet of the Lord.
If possible, I'd encourage you to talk with your husband, share your heart, pray about it with him. But trust his final decision.
God bless you!
I have to Agree with Crystal on the comment about the questin from anonymous. I have the same issue- I don't feel our family is complete but my husband says we're done- I trust God has a plan My husband is my covering. thanks Crystal for encouraging words.
I think that was a neat story of trusting God and following His leading. Big families are great! However, I feel the NEED to point out to you zealous ecological breastfeeders that it doesn't work for every woman. I get my period about 2 weeks after lochia stops and I can feel myself ovulating then too. This was when I was nursing my babies every one-two hours around the clock constantly. I know the ecological spacing does work for some women, but there are many for whom it doesn't. This leads me to say that I believe that we need to be VERY careful that we don't go overboard in saying that any form of limiting or spacing children is wrong when the Bible clearly doesn't say that. It speaks of the blessing of children, but doesn't say that it's wrong not to have as many as you possibly can or it doesn't say people shouldn't try to prevent them (please nobody bring up Onan since I think his issue was related more to rebellion than birth control). Yes, kids are a blessing, but so is marriage and yet Paul didn't get married because God called him to singleness for the work of the Kingdom. I'm against postponing kids for selfish reasons or planning out only a certain amount of kids to fit our quota, and I'm against hormonal birth control and any kind that might be abortive. However, I think God expects us to be stewards of our resources and bodies and if there are difficult circumstances that occur in this area, I think we are wise to use our knowledge of our bodies in trying to prevent pregnancy as best we can. Sometimes this can be the means of His provision for us. Each of these circumstances listed is a REAL circumstance in someone whom I know's life and I challenge those who dogmatically proclaim there should be NO limiting kids whatsoever to think these scenarios over:
*Someone who already has 4 kids and 8 subsequent miscarriages and just can't go through another one
*A young woman who got pregnant on her honeymoon, then when that baby was three months old she got pregnant with twins, and when they were 9 months she got pregnant again.....and she has 25 years of childbearing left and her hubby was getting paid $7 an hour last I knew
*A family struggling in debt so that the mom has to work because their insurance refused to cover one child's risky birth. It will take 5 years to pay it off and more kids and more hospital bills would crush them even further (they live in a state that has 0 midwives who do homebirths and 0 birthing centers--the average safe birth in our state costs $10,000)
*A woman who had such a traumatic C-section that she can never have a VBAC and if she gets pregnant more than 4 times, her risk of uterine rupture and death is very high
*One woman had 6 children in 5.5 years and was told by her doctor that another baby would kill her because of her worn down body.
*The issue of being able to breastfeed the baby for a year. I get so sick with my pregnancies that I doubt I could breastfeed if I was pregnant. Continual pregnancies back to back would rob the baby on the outside of getting breastmilk for a year at least which is very beneficial
*A woman who has severe postpartum depression that is difficult to manage and causes her to be suicidal or unable to care for her many little ones
If anyone likes John Piper, his staff at Desiring God put together an EXCELLENT article on whether or not birth control of any kind is biblical. Check it out by going to www.desiringgod.org and doing a search on birth control.
Trusting God is awesome and kids and large families are an amazing blessing and an amazing testimony. We should surrender those areas in which we are holding onto the control strings. God wants ALL of us. But let us not forget that trust isn't leaping blindly either. We aren't all called to the same exact roles in our Christian lives. We don't refuse to go to work saying, "God will provide" and we don't neglect to sow and cultivate the earth if we want crops to grow. We manage our money and finances and seek to be good stewards of what God has given us. We take vitamins, exercise, and seek to keep our bodies healthy. And I believe He expects us to use that knowledge to make wise decisions where we can (through prayer and study of the Word) knowing that if He chooses to override our decisions, He will most definitely provide.
If God so leads you to not plan a family, I say, "Go for it and be blessed!" If difficult circumstances come and you feel God's peace about limiting or spacing kids, then I don't at all think you are in the wrong.
Mrs. Jo
www.thekingsmissus.blogspot.com
Thank you, Crystal. That's pretty much what I've been doing, but it's HARD. My husband won't even talk about it anymore. I guess I'll have to just wait and pray, like you say. I'm just not much good at the waiting part, I guess. That biological clock stops for no man!
Mrs. Jo.,
Thanks for sharing. I think it is easy in these types of discussions to get distracted by all the what-ifs and miss the main point - that children are a blessing from the Lord.
The world has programmed us to see them as burdens and something to be put off until we have enough money, until we accomplish all the things *we* want to do with our lives, until we have all of our ducks in a row, etc.
As Christians, sadly, we have often bought into the world's mentality concerning children, too. We see having them as something to be delayed until we think the timing is right. As Becky said in her post, we often fail to even pray or seek the Lord about this area. We just do what everyone else does because that's what you're supposed to do, right?
My encouragement is for couples to truly seek the Lord concerning this. Search the Scriptures concerning what God has to say regarding marriage and children. Ask the Lord for His direction for your lives.
There are unique situations and unique circumstances and I can't speak for all of those. But I can say that giving this over to the Lord from the beginning of our marriage has been one of the best things we've ever done. We have such freedom, such peace.
If we were waiting until the "right time" to have children, we would for sure be still waiting since finances have always been tight. And, for me, being pregnant is very far from a "walk in the park" - especially this last pregnancy. But I look into my daughters' eyes and know that it is all worth. There is never a moment that I regret trusting the Lord's timing in this in our lives.
Crystal,
I, too, agree that my babies are worth all the pain (morning sickness, natural childbirth, and hemorraging) and that children are an amazing blessing! I had two within 3.5 years of marriage and finances have always been tight for us too and yet we are so happy God blessed us with them as He did and welcome more when He blesses us! And it has been incredibly freeing for us to trust God in this area too.
I didn't mean to distract by the what-ifs, just point out that there is a balance to this issue. Usually when this issue comes up people from the quiverfull mentality jump on a bandwagon and go on and on about how all limiting is wrong and make it sound so joyful and easy when for many people it is not. I was just trying to point out that while unplanning a family is wonderful if God leads you to it, I think there are circumstances in our lives that warrant some planning. Proverbs talks much about making wise plans. The argument someone gave that we trust God in all other areas except the area of having children could go the other way. Why can we plan in many other areas of our lives with money, buying homes, whom we marry, but never try to plan in this area?
We should not swallow the world's mentality of kids being a drag and a burden and we should not seek to avoid getting pregnant for selfish reasons. I'm all for having kids as soon as you're married and welcoming many blessings into the family.
I think your advice to woman with husbands that don't want more kids was right on. God has often changed a husband's heart through humble and earnest prayers of a righteous wife.
Food for thought (for anyone to contemplate--not aimed at Crystal):
If you were one of those ultra fertile women who was blessed with 4 kids in 2.5 years (including twins) or 2 sets of twins less than 2 years apart (as one woman I know of) would you feel that seeking to prevent pregnancy through non-abortive means is unbiblical?
One more thing: Just as women can be selfish in seeking to avoid pregnancy can't they also be selfish on insisting on more and more and more kids even if they aren't taking care of the kids they have well or the husband disagrees or the debt is rising?
Mrs. Jo: To answer your question: I'd pray about it and seek the Lord with my husband. :)
I know lots of women who don't use birth control and I know very, very few who nurse exclusively for the first six months to a year who actually can get pregnant before six months to a year or longer. I know there are exceptions, but I've only seen this happen in a handful of cases. I'm just saying that so that those who think that if you don't use birth control, you'll automatically have 12 children in 10 years realize that that is not at all usually the case.
And it's about so much more than having lots of children. You are absolutely right that people can be selfish in whatever circumstance. It's not the number of children that matters. It's our hearts that matter. Having children is a huge responsibility and it only begins when they are born. It's a huge sacrifice to lay down our lives day in and day out to train and raise the next generation and it is not at all something which should be taken lightly. But what could be more rewarding as parents than giving up our lives to shape the next generation up for the glory of God?
I just read a book this past week by Karen Kingsbury "Summer" which had me sobbing by the end, but she really brought you through the story of a mother who is pregnant with a child with anencephaly.
It is always good to read other people's experience's on this matter of BC or not.
As a mommy of two adopted sons, I wept at Doug Phillips post... Thank you for the link
I do think there should be *some* balance to the quiverfull argument.Mrs. Jo make some excellent arguments. IN modern American it is easy to have a lot of children (even though it isn't popular). When my grandfather was a boy, he had to live with relatives because there wasn't enough food. He had many siblings and his mom and dad just couldn't support them all, so they were sent elsewhere. They were scattered everywhere. This isn't a very good way to raise you children, but it was common for the very poor to do this. I think these people were trusting the Lord. Sometimes, the Lord answers in ways we don't like.
-zan
No, ecological breastfeeding doesn't work for every woman (though EB has more to do than just frequency of nursing), but that is just one form of Natural Family Planning available. Any woman, nursing or not can chart her fertility. It takes less than five minutes a day, and done correctly, it is more effective than most hormonal or barrier methods (over 99%).
The Church teaches that it is acceptable to use NFP to space pregnancies for serious reason (which may vary from family-to-family). The scenarios Mrs. Jo listed would certainly fall into that category, but using artifical methods to space births is still immoral. With natural methods, the couple is always still open to the possibility of life.
I don't think it's been mentioned either that using NFP strengthens a marriage. Here's what the CCLI website says (much more eloquently than I could!):
1. NFP provides couples with a built-in way of keeping a cycle of courtship and honeymoon in their marriage. To put it most briefly, this prevents either spouse from taking their sexual relationship for granted. It also prevents them from putting their whole approach to intimacy in their marriage on one aspect of their relationship: their sexual love for each other.
2. Couples who practice NFP find that by discussing and prayerfully discerning their aspirations and concerns about the size of their family, they find it more easy to discuss and handle other issues in their marriages: finances, "in-law" strategies, how to rear their children, etc.
3. Wives tell us they experience increased satisfaction and greater appreciation for their husbands, who are practicing self-control and willingly sacrificing some pleasure for the sake of their beloved spouse. Husbands tell us of feeling a sense of privilege in being let into knowledge of their wives' fertility, an understanding few other men can claim to have. Even if it seems more convenient for husbands to let their wives "take care of this women's business," most NFP-using husbands would rather have the true equality this knowledge introduces into their marriages, marriages that pay more than lip service to the "one flesh" that they have become through their marital vows.
(Emphasis mine)
http://ccli.org/nfp/marriage/index.php
I must live in the fertility belt or something because I have several cousins with kids 10 months apart and my great-grandma had 18! My grandma had 6 plus a miscarriage by the time she was 25. I know so many friends that get pregnant while breastfeeding and many young ladies from the Bible college I attended that have a baby every year. It's rare for me to hear of ecological breastfeeding working for anyone. Those Minnesotans sure are fertile! What's in the water up there? (We live in WY now, but most of our young couple friends are in MN where we met at Bible college and used to live).
Courtney:
I personally am not a big fan of NFP. I definitely see it as a better option than the Pill since it is not abortive or harmful to the woman's body (And where are the feminists when it comes to the lack of information that's out there on the destructive and harmful side effects the Pill can have on a woman's body?).
However, my husband and I feel that NFP can be detrimental to a marriage and we also think that one is hard-pressed to find a Biblical basis for it.
Scripture is clear that the only reason to withhold one's self in the marriage relationship is for a season of prayer and fasting. It never talks about withholding one's self to prevent conception. In fact, Scripture never talks about preventing conception but does talk much about the blessings of children and make it clear that one of the main purposes of marriage was for procreation.
My husband and I don't see it as a normal, healthy thing to abstain when your desires are at peak (which is what most NFP would require). God designed physical intimacy to be a wonderful part of marriage. The husband is to rejoice and be fulfilled in the wife of his youth.
Charting and temping and all of everything else which goes along with NFP can really hinder the beauty and glory and blessing of the marriage bed.
Just trusting God and leaving it in Hands and just enjoying and rejoicing in one another is a much better alternative in my view. :)
All that said, I want to be clear that I'm not judging what another couple has decided. I'm just sharing our thoughts and how the Lord has led us.
I think every couple needs to really seek the Lord together on this.
amen.. beautiful
gp in montana
Wow! Thank you so much for those Crystal!! I have to admit I get teary eyed reading Doug Phillips blog. Not only because of his words about Mrs. Phillips biological mother, but because of his regard and love for his wife. It is something very wonderful to read from any husband.
Thanks,
Leigh
I will say that I totally agree with Crystal about NFP. I think it takes a lot away from the marriage bed. Breastfeeding didn't work for my sister, either...pregnant after 6 mos.
NFP was tried with us and I conceived with the baby I'm carrying now.
I have heard that it does make marriages closer and that the divorce rate is lower, but those were from a Catholic study and since divorce isn't allowed in the Church, I found it hard to rely on.
-Zan
And where are the feminists when it comes to the lack of information that's out there on the destructive and harmful side effects the Pill can have on a woman's body?
I was on the Pill from 1990 - 1993. I obtained a prescription at age 19 through Planned Parenthood. The nurse (or maybe she was a doctor) at Planned Parenthood went through the risks and potential side effects of my prescription in great detail with me. I was also given a written pamphlet regarding risks and side effects. It's been a long time but I seem to remember that my doctor also said that there had been no studies at that time about the long-term effects of the pill.
I also learned about risks and side effects of the Pill in my high school biology class, as well as failure rates of different forms of birth control.
So I made my choice with my eyes wide open. I am not aware of a problem with informed consent among women who take the Pill.
-- The Happy Feminist
(P.S. Sorry I've been out of contact. Still trying to keep my ahead above water at work.)
Hi, HF!
Nice to see you around!
I'm glad you were told the risks and side effects. From what I've read, that is not the norm.
You should read my email. I get emails all the time from girls who went on the Pill as a young girl - prescribed by their doctor - and were never told anything.
My mom was one of those girls. No one even told her it was birth control. They just said she needed to take it for her hormones.
Also, you rarely ever hear that the Pill can actually be abortive (most women on it do not know this and were never told this) and you also very rarely are told about all cases of women whose fertility has been messed up by it.
Except in the cases of a medical condition, it's not a healthy thing for a woman's cycle to be hampered with or stopped altogether by medicine. She can have lifelong side effects as a result. I'd really love to see more feminists advocating for information being given to young women concerning this.
And that's just the physical consequences to a woman's body when taking hormonal birth control, we could talk all day about the lasting and destructive consequences which can result from the promiscuity the Pill can easily encourage in young women.
What a great discussion! I'm completely with you on everything that you have said here Crystal. I am SO thankful that my husband and I both have the same convictions regarding birth control. I agree 100% with what you said about NFP. It is so freeing and such a beautiful and exciting thing to rely completely on God for the size of our family and spacing of babies. That said, I have to admit that it is also a little scary and is definitely making me rely on Him more every day (just another positive result!). I'm one of the ones that ecological breastfeeding doesn't work for...as far as a natural birth control anyway. I have four children and the oldest is 3 1/2 - all single births. I absolutely LOVE being a stay-at-home, homeschooling wife and mama, but of course it's overwhelming at times. There's no way I could possibly do it without Christ and His sustaining grace and mercies that are new every morning (and I NEED them every morning!). Before my husband and I got married we decided not to use birth control and to leave it totally up to God. We're a little more fertile than we expected, but we're loving it and can't wait to see how many babies God will bless us with. Woohoo! Here we go...bring on the blessings!!
My husband and I decided to leave our family size in the Lord's hands as well. It's such a wonderful way to trust Him and know that He owns the cattle on a thousand hills and can provide for our every need!
Crystal, I think we're saying the same thing. Your response to NFP is perfect!! It IS unnatural to withhold from relations when your desire is highest! Exactly! That is why the constant dialogue about a couple's reasons for postponing pregnancy can be so helpful to a marriage. It really makes you discern whether or not abstaining is what is best!
I'm not clear from your post if you're missing my point, though, about NFP actually helping to build a deeper respect in the marriage. I think it's even worse for a marriage to engage in "consequence-free" relations that can come from using artificial means of birth control. With those there is little respect for one another's fertility. That's why I posted what I did from CCL: to show that if you do find it necessary in your marriage to space births, NFP is a much better choice than hormonal or barrier methods. From my perspective, there is even less respect for fertility and little sense of life-giving love than with NFP, which is always open to the possibility of creating life.
My DH and I have not used NFP for any length of time as when we were married we didn't have any need to postpone pregnancy and now I'm still experiencing infertility from breastfeeding (16 months PP). However, I don't believe that short-term abstinence is detrimental to a marriage. In the case of NFP it's only a few days. There are longer periods of abstinence after childbirth or during pregnancy (for some), and the couples are forced to find other ways to connect. I actually find it frightening to think that the only way to sustain intimacy in a marriage is through physical means.
I know I haven't expressed myself perfectly. My little one needs me, so I'll try to sum up: for me, if there came a time to postpone pregnancy because of grave reasons (such as my health), then I would absolutely choose NFP over anything else.
Zan, Catholics both divorce (and rarely seek annulment) and use birth control at the same rate as the general population, so I think the study you've read can be relied upon. :-)
Courtney: My response was based upon most of my experiences with those who practice NFP. The only reason they are practicing it is to prevent conception. It's not about praying and seeking the Lord, it's not about communicating with their spouse, it's just about not having babies. And as such, it is a real strain on their marriage because it's all about charting and temping and when you can and can't do things.
You are right that physical intimacy is not the only aspect of a good marriage, but a healthy and vibrant physical relationship is a very important aspect of a good marriage. :)
I know that my thoughts are not the norm and I'm sure there's more than a handful of you who think I'm nuts. :) It certainly wouldn't be the first time. I'm hopeful that what I and others have written here will cause everyone to give pause to their beliefs and practices and hold them up to the light of Scripture instead of being blindly led by society.
Thanks for the dialogue, Courtney! I think these are very important issues which more people should be examining and discussing.
By the way, while I'm opening up all these Pandora's boxes here, I thought I'd bring something else up: Is ecological breastfeeding for the express purpose of delaying fertility any different than other forms of birth control?
I personally think that extended breastfeeding is great and nursed Kathrynne until she was 18 months and will very likely be doing the same with Kaitlynn. However, I am not nursing so I won't get pregnant. I'm nursing for the health of my child and for my health. And I also just plain love the bond which comes from nursing. But I've always felt that if I were prolonging nursing just so I wouldn't get pregnant, wouldn't that be the same mentality as anything else I expressly did for the purpose of preventing conception?
This is something I'm still thinking through and talking about with my husband and I'd love to hear other's thoughts on this. Anyone?
I find myself agreeing with Mrs. Jo and Courtney :) I think that NFP can be a good and godly thing, it has certainly been a blessing to our marriage. For me, it comes down to trusting God ultimately and sovereignly but also realizing I have a duty to be wise. He can overcome even the most amazing circumstances if that is His wish...I have a friend who was born after his mother had undergone a tubal ligation and his father a vasectomy.
But I don't think it is wrong to be wise about children, because ultimately it IS up to God. Just because I am charting and understanding my body and cycles doesn't mean I will ultimately prevent His will. In fact, we--hubby and I--feel that He has led us to make those choices and blessed them. I, too, am against hormonal birth control and unnatural means of preventing pregnancy. We are confident that this is how He is leading us, and how He leads many others.
And that's what it comes down to, for me. It isn't about whether we are doing nothing or doing something, but where our hearts are. It isn't about preventing or unplanning, but how God leads each couple. Not all couples are called to have big families, and perhaps God will use natural means to achieve that, not just supernatural. I believe we are called to be obedient to what He has for us, not just an ideal.
I absolutely agree that Biblically, children are blessings. And the only reason for sustained abstinence would be fasting and prayer (as per the NT) or a period/after the baby (as per the OT). But I don't see a Biblical basis that skipping sex for a night or two, mutually, is evil or that the "quiverfull" philosophy is the only Biblically acceptable formula or that planning and being wise stewards of our bodies and finances and life is wrong. :) Just my 2 cents.
Crystal - the WHO recommends breastfeeding for 2 years and I agree although my girls weaned themselves by around a year (unfortunately for me as I loved the experience!). Breastfeeding should be done for bonding and health and not for birth control IMO.
Great post! I feel as if God has played a major role in this part of my life. I was on the pill when I had a miscarriage back in 1999. I went to the doctor and she confirmed the miscarriage and told me that the pill sometimes does this. I didn't know I was pregnant and I didn't know the pill caused miscarriages. We were crushed. I have not used it since. I began, however, using the copper IUD after the birth of my 3rd child in 2006. I battled a uterine infection for months as a result of the birth. When the uterine infection cleared I was put on Mirena (by a different doctor) which is a hormonal IUD. I ended up with another uterine infection and also had terrible reactions to the hormones (even though they are low dose). The doctor removed the IUD and told me that I cannot use any form of hormonal birth control or IUDs. It wasn't until after 16 months of infections and worry about the loss of my fertility that my husband and I did some research on what birth control really does and really thought about the choices that we had made. We have decided to put it in God's hands and we both feel more free, actually. Most of our friends use NFP but this does not work for us.
Such a controversial subject!
Family planning definitely ought to be a matter of prayer and seeking what God would have you to do. For those of you who have commented whose husbands disagree with you, I fully agree with Crystal's comment on trusting your husband as your head. God wants you to submit to your husband, even when it doesn't make sense in your mind. If you don't have the book, Created to be His Helpmeet, by Debi Pearl, I really encourage you to get it and read it. She has excellent, Biblical, practical advice. Hope this will help someone!
Yes, it's me AGAIN, (sorry)
To answer Crystal's question on ecological breastfeeding:
It's a matter of your motives. If you are earnestly seeking to continue nursing because of the bond and the benefits to the baby, then you should continue nursing as long as you are able.
If you secretly hope that the prolonged nursing spaces your children, then your motives are the same as those who use other forms of birth control (although you would be using non-abortive and very natural means). But the goal would be the same, however suttle. As you know from my previous comments, I don't think this is unbiblical and unwise if you feel God's peace about this and your husband agrees. BUT, if you feel convicted that you are not to take ANY means to space or limit kids and God has made this very clear to your husband and yourself, then you as a family will have to decide how to deal with your temptation to go against God's leading. This may mean prayer and surrender or possibly even weaning.
Even women who don't get their cycles right away like me usually get their period back around a year, so even if you were nursing until 1.5 or 2, the odds of you being fertile around the time your daughter is 1 year are pretty high. So, it may even be a non-issue because if you are nursing with the knowledge that you are fertile at that point, then you're likely only prolonging nursing for the baby and the bond.
Is it so wrong to hope for a little time to recoup after the rigors of birth and breastfeeding and lack of sleep? I think a godly woman can embrace the gift of children and the desire for more and still hope for a bit of a rest between kids. Just because kids are an unfathomable blessing doesn't mean we should seek as much of that blessing as possible as soon as possible, like purposefully trying to have a baby every year. If I was in Little Arrow's circumstance I would be asking God to grant me a rest before #5 and #6 came =) Her story is neat because God is sustaining her through it and it has caused her to be utterly dependent on Him. I personally believe she is no less godly if she petitions the Lord for a bit of a break or seeks to space her future kids through non-abortive measures, though it sounds like her convictions right now would lead her not to.
Another ? for people is: What are your motives for having a large family? I secretly suspect that one of my acquaintances is getting pregnant every year for the attention. There are others who desire many children because of pride or desire to be thought of as especially godly, like all their homeschooling, quiverfull friends. One gauge I use for my pride in this area is: If I could never have any more children (I have 2) could I be content in that, even though I sometimes want to have a large family to prove that I'm not of the worldly 1 boy, 1 girl, now I'm done mindset? Even though quiverfull people would look at me and think I had limited my family and not just "trusted" God? Even though I desire to prove to people what a strong and capable woman I am? If the thought of God ordaining that you only have 1 or 2 children stings, then you have to ask yourself if you are truly trusting God in this area no matter what, or if you are only trusting Him to fulfill YOUR PLANS of having a big family.
Crystal, I totally agree with you that if NFP is ONLY used to "not have babies," then it is being used for the wrong reasons entirely. And I say this as a devout Catholic and a servant to the Lord and my husband.
It is terribly unfortunate that most of your encounters with NFP couples have been negative. (I cannot judge said couples, of course.)
Incidentally, in our NFP class during our engagement, there was a "doubting" woman who raised her hand and, in a rather impertinent tone, asked our teaching couple how many children they had. The proud, simultaneous response was, "Five!" The woman then said loudly, "See? It doesn't work!" to which the husband-half of the instructing couple looked her straight in the eyes and answered, "We didn't use it to AVOID children. We used it to HAVE children."
Oh, it was a glorious moment for the Lord, I have to say! :-)
love,
Jess
I'm enjoying discussing this, Crystal! :-) Your last comment was really important. NFP can be used with contraceptive mentality and that makes it no different from other forms of birth control. I wasn't even thinking about that, though, I have heard caution against such an attitude. That would a real strain on marriage, and certainly isn't a situation that is truly open to life. Good point!
Your question about ecological breastfeeding is also great food for thought! I would hope that most people who are practicing ecological breastfeeding are doing so becuase that's what best for the baby and the associated infertility and family planning "side effects" are just that. That's how we've always approached it: we're doing this because it's best for our child and as a result we're experiencing infertility. On our part there's a real sense of awe at God's design. He has created our bodies so that while we're nourishing and caring for our child according to His design, we will not conceive. It's hard to put into words exactly, especially because some women DON'T experience long-term infertility while nursing. Basically, though, it seems that while we're nourishing and nurturing our youngest blessings, we are created NOT to create. I hope that makes some sense. It's hard to articulate this!
Mrs. Jo: I totally agree with your points. I think that the pendulum can be swung too far one way or the other. If we say we are leaving this in God's hands, we need to totally leave it there because isn't "trying to have a baby" taking it into our hands just as much as "trying not to have a baby is"?
I'm all for life and having children, but if we're having children for some selfish motivation, then that's no different to me than using contraception. It's not a contest, it's about joyfully welcoming the children God sees fit to bless us with and raising them up to be strong and mighty arrows for the cause of Christ. And I know a lot of women who only have a few children and would love to have more, but that's all that God has given them. Are they less of a Godly family because they only have two or three or none? Absolutely not!
Since we dealt with some pretty serious infertility issues at the beginning of our marriage, I certainly know that the Lord is truly the One Who is the Author of life. And I never want to take that for granted.
We'd love to have more children, but if two is God's designed number for us, we are content and thankful with that. (Though we wouldn't rule out adoption at some point!) It is our job to focus on training and raising up these precious children God has entrusted us with for His glory.
I *do* believe that God designed a woman's body to have a period of rest between each child and that is why in most circumstances breastfeeding causes a lack of fertility to return. I have read that with many of the modern advances in medicine and technology, these things have hampered with the natural design of a woman's body. I heard somewhere not too long ago (don't quote me on it!) that in third-world countries where their diet is much more natural, etc. and women have the babies pretty much strapped to them all day long, they usually have natural spacing between their children.
From what I can tell, I'm one of those women who - while exclusively breastfeeding - could not get pregnant. That's at least what it seems so far. If that weren't the case, I've not been in that position, so I can't say what I would do. Theoretically, I would, instead of begging God for a break, bring my needs and inadequacies before Him and throw them at His feet seeking Him for grace and trusting Him - Who doeth all things well and Who knows my needs - to do what is best. Remember, I said theoretically, though. :):) When you've not actually traveled a path, it's hard to say what you really would or wouldn't do. :)
I was listening to a CD by Nancy Campbell not too long ago and she was talking about how women who nurse at least every four hours round the clock usually never have their fertility return until at least six months to a year. I found this interesting. As far as I know, everyone I personally know who has gotten pregnant less than six months after their baby was born was not nursing every four hours or less round the clock. I thought that was interesting. Not sure if it is scientific, but it is interesting. :)
I know some women who wean specifically so they can get pregnant again and some who nurse specifically so they won't get pregnant again. I personally don't feel comfortable with the mentality of either. I want to be nursing my child for that child's health and nourishment until that particular child seems like they are ready to stop nursing - either because they naturally wean themselves or because of other circumstances. (With Kathrynne, I stopped around 18 months because she was then getting plenty of nutrition through food and was starting to be very demanding about being nursed.)
If one of the side effects of me nursing a child for their benefit is that my fertility doesn't naturally return, then I trust that the Lord knows what is best for our family. But I don't want my fertility to be the reason I nurse or don't nurse. Otherwise, it seems rather hypocritical for me to say we are entrusting our family size into the Lord's hands.
Thanks for a great discussion, ladies!
Crystal- I enjoyed reading your thoughts about breastfeeding, and agree with everything you have said. God's Design for our bodies is just fascinating to me, and, truly, leaves me in awe of Him. Reading the numerous references to nursing in the Bible has always fascinated me, but even moreso now that I have had the experience of nursing my daughter. I have read similar information about the natural spacing of children in more "traditional" cultures, and also LOVE much of what Nancy Campbell has to say on the subject...it is all so very interesting to me. God's Plans are just amazing. :o)
My own experiences of trusting my fertility to God have been very painful at times, but even still, seeing how He uses trials to draw us closer to Him is quite the experience. I was very apprehensive to become a mother for many reasons, and despite using no "family planning" techniques, did not become pregnant for the first nine months of our marriage. Sadly, this pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage, and as devastating as this experience was, God used it to show me so many truths and to grow in my walk with Him. On my first cycle following my miscarriage, I conceived my dear little daughter, and wound up going through the very humbling experience of her premature birth. Seeing how God watched over her and has protected her health has been such a blessing. I have since had another miscarriage, and came to realize that perhaps I was not trusting God's plans for me, but might instead be turning children into an idol. Leaving my fertility in God's Hands is *not* about how many children we may or may not have, but is about *trusting* Him and being content no matter what might happen. This journey has been very interesting, and quite the growth experience, and to think, it might not have occurred had we been "family planning."
It'd be interesting to figure out how much our foods today really do affect hormones. For instance, girls are getting their periods earlier and earlier every generation. Someone I know mentioned flurescent lighting having an effect on this too (don't know if it's true or not!) There might be something to the fact that women in America don't have the same spacing benefits as some women in third world countries.
Because my period returns by the time the baby is 2 months old even when I'm nursing every 2 hours around the clock and through the night, my husband has commanded that we seek to avoid pregnancy for the first year of the baby's life so I'm able to heal, rest (if you'd call nursing in the night for a year resting), and nourish our babies through breastmilk. I said in a previous comment that my family has a history of mega fertility and lots of babies 10 months younger than their next sibling. I am happy to submit to my husband in this area (although I haven't ALWAYS been because of my pride) because I know he is concerned for my health and sanity and we can usually pay our hospital/midwife bills during this year before another pregnancy could happen. We still both feel we are trusting God in this area because He can override our attempts to prevent using the knowledge of my cycle during that year of breastfeeding. My husband feels God's peace in his decision knowing that as my protector he is seeking what's best for his wife and family. Without this plan for our family I think I would have already had 4 kids by now in 4 years of marriage and that would be a major stressor on our particular marriage! (But I'm not saying it is for everyone and I know God gives strength to handle what we think we cannot). My husband and I want to please God in this area and this is how we feel convicted about this. But we're open to children and a large family! =)
Maybe I'm strange but my cycle is extremely regular and always follows the full moon and I feel painful ovulation every single time I ovulate. I know I ovulate as soon as my newborn is around 6 or 7 weeks old!
I think you came to a good conclusion which you stated at the end of your last comment Crystal.
Mrs Jo: I think that's so wonderful that you're trusting the Lord through trusting your husband's leading! You can't go wrong that way!
And thanks for a great discussion!
Thanks for linking to my post, Crystal! I haven't been online in days so I didn't see it till now.
I absolutely agree with you about feeling so much peace about asking God to bring children into our family in His timing. It's such a relief not to have to think/plan/worry about that.
Regarding ecological breastfeeding, I have had the same thoughts about my motives. We would love to have another baby soon, and Matthew and I had a brief discussion a few months ago about breastfeeding preventing my fertility from returning and for a fleeting moment considered stopping nursing so we could get pregnant again. But I really think it's important for her nutritionally to nurse for a year (which we have accomplished - she just had her first birthday!) and two years, if possible. I won't deny her those benefits in order to conceive another baby.
In the same way, I wouldn't force her to nurse longer than she wanted in order to delay ovulation. I agree with you, Crystal, that the mentality behind that would be no different from using an artificial means of birth control. And since we feel strongly convicted not to do that, it would be wrong for us to use breastfeeding with the purpose of birth control.
It just happened to work out that the way I was most comfortable setting her feeding schedule (basically nursing on request) and the frequency that she wanted to nurse and my parenting decisions such as taking her everywhere with me happened to coincide with the "formula" of ecological breastfeeding:
1. Do exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months of life; don't use other liquids and solids.
2. Pacify the baby at the breast.
3. Don't use bottles and pacifiers.
4. Sleep with the baby for night feedings.
5. Sleep with the baby for a daily-nap feeding.
6. Nurse frequently day and night, and avoid schedules.
7. Avoid any practice that restricts nursing or separates mom and baby.
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