She's no "man"
An American man who claims he is six months pregnant said it was a "miracle" in his first TV interview.
Thomas Beatie, 34, of Bend, Oregon, used to be a woman before undergoing gender reassignment surgery.
He first claimed he was pregnant in an article headlined "Labour of love" in a gay magazine, the Advocate, last month.
Many were skeptical, particularly after Beatie said he would not give any interviews until April Fools' Day.
But speaking on Oprah Winfrey's US chat show yesterday, he said: "Different is normal and love makes a family. And that's all that matters."
Beatie appeared with his wife, Nancy, for the interview. The audience was shown footage of his ultrasound scan and heard the sound of a heartbeat.
As he saw the scan on the monitor, Beatie told the doctor: "She's kicking. I can't believe it. I can't believe she's inside me. This is a miracle. We see this as a miracle."
He described pregnancy as a "human desire", not limited to women.
"I'm a person and I have the right to have my own biological child," he said.
Beatie said pregnancy did not make him feel more feminine.
"It doesn't make me want to go and shave my legs or something," he said. "I'm a man, I just happen to be a pregnant man."
He told Winfrey he had had a sex change but had not altered his reproductive organs because he wanted to have a child.
Read full article (if you can stomach it).
Folks, I'll state it plainly: men shouldn't have babies. And men can't have babies. And men will never be able to have babies.
What I don't get is why everyone is referring to this individual as a "man".
She's no man. You can try to genetically alter yourself all you want but God makes people either male or female. End of question.
This person doesn't need gender reassignment surgery; this person needs Christ. Without Him, we would all be just as messed up.
That said, my heart aches for this child who is being brought into this world as a sort of "science experiment". Where are the feminists when it comes to the dignity of this little girl?
Labels: Hot Topics
posted by Crystal Paine at 5:13 PM
83 Comments:
Amen.
what I dont understand is why they're calling it a "miracle". Not that I dont consider the creation of life by God a miracle, but women with uterus's get pregnant every day. Fact is this person is genetically a woman, not a man, no matter how much she wishes to be a man she is not. I do feel sorry for the child. What a confusing existance!
Ditto, ditto, ditto!
This story makes me heart sick!
This is utterly sickening.
Gracie
Amen. I thought the exact same things. I was so ripped that they lied and inticed people to watch by publicizing a pregnant man.
But as to your last comment, as far as I understand it, feminists would be all for the right to choose your gender, so they generally wouldn't take issue with this. They would most likely think the child has a "better" shot than most because he/she will be raised under the umbrella of things like "unbiased-tolerance"... definitely sad.
I know a couple of feminists who raise foster children and one made a comment about one of their 3 year old girls along the lines of "we're still waiting to see what sex she will embrace."
The thing that made me the sickest about the Oprah interview was when she said; "in 20 years I am convinced nobody will take issue with something like this." Ick. I hope we're not here in 20 years.
Amen, Crystal!
I saw this story the other day and was sickened. What has the world come to where we can accept a "man" being pregnant?
Erin
Amen. That is exactly what we've been saying.
Sad. :(
Amen, Crystal. What we have here is a pregnant woman who took hormones to appear masculine and then changed her name to Thomas. But underneath it all, she's still a woman as evidenced by the fact that she's pregnant. I feel horrible for the little baby being born into this delusional and confused home. These people need prayer, not publicity. Well, maybe the publicity will provide just that.
Rather than adopt a child who needs a set of parents, this 'couple' has elected to place their DNA over the dignity of their daughter, who will forever be the object of ridicule. I saw these people on Oprah and I was so angry I could just spit. NO, adoption isn't for everyone BUT NO child should be subjected to the humiliation this child will face...
I am really pleased to see you speak up on this matter my dear friend. As a loyal Oprah viewer since I was a teenager, I am quite frankly disgusted with Oprah for allowing the sensationalized rubish to be on her usually uplifting and educational show. I agree 100% about her not being a man but a woman who wants to have a masculine appearance and a lesbian relationship. I am sad this story got attention and as someone who is struggling to get pregnant I couldn't help but be resentful of someone behaving that way on national tv.
There is my cents . ..
I couldn't agree more Crystal!
These people obviously need prayers! And especially the baby girl.
Leigh
Amen, sister! Every since I read about this the other day I've been so frustrated. A lady commented that this will "redefine" families or something totally outrageous like that. I'm thinking, "Ok, so one incident compared to billions of families that have gone before is suddenly 'redefining' things?" How stupid is that? Sorry for the strong language, but it IS stupid. At most, it's an exception, not a new rule.
I agree with you that this lady should not be referred to as a man. She is a woman.
"I'm just happy to be a pregnant man."
That is officially the most bizarre comment I have ever heard.
That was my first thought- This is NOT a man having a baby!
I completely agree. But this reminds me...I have always wondered about those babies born with "both parts" or some combination of them. Then the doctors and parents have to pick a sex and do operations and stuff. I've wondered about what the right thing is for those people. This is not the case here, she CHOSE to take hormones to appear to be a man.
Amen!
My sentiments exactly.
:( This is so sad. I actually live in Bend, Oregon. But I hadn't even heard about it because it hasn't been in our paper and I don't watch the news. It turns my stomach. But more than that, it just proves to me exactly what you said ... nothing could make her be anything but a woman.
Sick! :(
But how does a (wo)man married to a woman get pregnant, anyway? "It's a miracle" means someone was... cheating... right??
I think Oprah needs Christ as well if this is the kind of garbage she wants America to embrace.
Feminists don't think Thomas and Nancy's daughter needs to have her "dignity" defended. I think any child born to two parents who love her already has a pretty good start in life. Any ridicule she gets is not going to come from feminists-- it will come from people who teach their children that it's OK to bully kids who are different.
Well in response to your comment about God only creating males and females, some people ae born androgynous, with both male and female sexual organs.
Lorna
Kathryn: Just for the record, this is not "Thomas" and Nancy's biological daughter. Two women have not, and will not ever, be able to create a life. Period. It takes a man and a woman to create life. That's how God designed it and science will never be able to defy that.
Secondly, so feminists don't care that this little girl is being exploited as a "science experiment"? Just goes to show that feminism is truly not about women's rights as it constantly purports. Not that I ever believed that anyway...
Lorna: Medical science or popular culture can try as they might to redefine God's Word, but God's Word still stands. Genesis 1:26-28 clearly states that God made male and female--that's it.
I believe the term "androgynous" is a man-made distortion of God's created order for humans. See wikipedia's definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgyny
And yes, I know there are very, very rare cases where a child is born as what has been dubbed "intersexual", however, even then, the chromosomes point to either the child being male or female. These cases are extremely rare and I do not believe they in anyway make a case for someone being able to choose or change their sex. Rather, I believe they show how sin has caused an imperfect world.
I do not have all the answers for this but I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God's Word is Truth and God clearly states that He created male and female--nothing else. Either we believe God to be Truth or we believe Him to be a liar.
AMEN!!! This situation is not a miracle...but SIN! It would be so wonderful if this child could be raised in a loving home with Christian parents! Oh the humiliation this child is going to have to indure in its future. My heart goies out to this baby.
A week ago, when I first read of this situation, I was literally sick at my stomach. How God must grieve at this world.
Even so come quickly, Lord Jesus!
Ruth, PA
Since I am a feminist, I must politely disagree with Crystal's belief that the welfare of this child has been disregarded entirely by women like me. I am concerned with the welfare of all children, but at this time I am more likely to worry over other things, such as the millions of children whose heterosexual parents ignore them, whose schools are falling down, and who don't receive adequate health care.
True, my concern does not lie with the gender of the parents (note that sex and gender not the same thing). However, their willingness to exploit their child on national media simply appalls me. As a media professional myself, I am also annoyed that the news media has jumped so hard for this story and manufactured a series of misleading headlines when there are FAR more important things we could be discussing. It's pretty low-grade journalism.
This is exactly why we no longer allow Oprah in our house. What a sad story. Kim
Can I just say Thank you? I feel the same way and have wondered this whole time why people insist that this former beauty queen is a man. She is not a man, she is a woman with external male parts that are only there on account of morally depleted doctors. Thanks so much for voicing what needs to be voiced. Too bad we can't go on Oprah!
Just one more example of the joke that morality in America has become. Moral America is almost an oxymoron.
Another issue of note here, is the strength of Oprah. There is definitely power in her name, in the eyes of many Americans anyway. I am sure they intentionally sought out her show to give apparent validity to their 'preferences.' If they had settled for the neon lights of the afternoon talk shows I don't know if we all would even be talking about this today. However, they held out for Oprah and now it is household news. If they get her seal of approval, they're golden.
One last thought, a leader in the gay rights' movement motivates his followers to seek publicity on the understanding that if you see something bizarre long enough, you begin to think it is normal. We need to be careful not to dwell on these bizarre, sinful situation so long that we lose sensitivity to them. I want to still feel that turn of my stomach when I read stories like this, I don't want it to ever feel the slightest bit normal. It's not, it's wrong.
Thank you, Crystal, for bringing to light yet another reason to be vigilant keepers and guardians of our homes.
~Erin
Amen!
I wonder how the male hormones will affect the unborn child??
Crystal: The feminists groups you are referring to do not care. After all, they have been working at sterilizing themselves for the last 50 years. I'm not trying to be nasty, but rather point out the irony of our society. So many women who *can* get pregnant don't want to, and the ones who can't, yearn for it. Truly, you do not know what you have until you loose it.
It is up to our generation to bring feminism back to its original definition.
On a side note: Have you ever been over to Modestly Yours?
Anon: I think it depends on how you define feminism. The "radical feminists" tend to be the most vocal. I believe that is whom Crystal questions.
Lorna: you are referring to two very rare genetic abnormalities. The first is Klinefelter's syndrome when the male has an extra X chromosome. This affectively sterilizes him, but he is still male (please see the cause section on the above link). The second case is Turner Syndrome when a woman has only one X. If she survives, she is underdeveloped and her life expectancy is short. But she is still female. HTH
Oprah has really embraced a whole new form of religion. Just watch this on You Tube and you will see what I mean. It's pretty scary. I've been such a fan for yers but now I just don't know anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW4LLwkgmqA
One of the creepiest things about this story, to me, is that there is this not-so-subtle implication for the reader/viewer that you are not allowed to disagree with the premise that this is a "man".
The Emperor has no clothes, and we're all supposed to smile and nod. If you don't smile and nod, you'll be accused of being intolerant, hateful and whatever else is currently offensive.
As long as this child has a loving home, with supportive parents, and access to healthcare and education, it will be in a better position than a vast majority of children in the world. In my opinion, it is children who are dying in the developing world from preventable diseases and orphans who do not have parents at all who we should be spending our time worrying about.
"She's no "man"" is absolutely right. I was sick after hearing about this on the news. This person is geneticly a woman...nothing or no amount of surgery or hormones will change that. Pray for them and that poor child.
Oh Crystal, this story has disgusted me on so many levels when it first came about. Thank you for sharing your views on it.
Crystal, I completely agree with your views on this situation. I am deeply saddened and pray for this unborn child, the pregnant "man" (WOMAN), and the "wife" in this family that desperately needs Christ. This defines dysfunctional and I cannot even begin to imagine the challenges and ridicule that this poor child will face when growing up.
I certainly agree --this WOMAN needs Jesus.
Amazingly enough I don't feel sorry for that deranged woman or her lesbian lover. Who I really feel sorry for is the future child.
I talked about this on my blog as well!
http://adlynmorrison.blogspot.com/2008/04/man-ternity.html
As long as this child has a loving home... etc.
Anon: None of us would disagree with this sediment. There are countless Christian organizations that send support to needy children world-wide.
To respond this way is to stick ones head in the sand, and not take into account its long term affects.
We are talking about the psychological development of a child. Do you remember what it was like to be 13? Try being 13 and telling the whole 7th grade your "father" gave birth to you. Chances are you wouldn't, your teacher might... depends on your parents. Seventh grade tends to be the start of sex ed. in American schools. Trust me, it's awkward enough learning about these topics with 25 of your peers, without being anymore "different".
Not only does it affect the child, but the world as a whole. Consider the effect of a pebble on a calm lake.
Crystal
Feminist here... and I agree with you 100% that men can't, and shouldn't, "give birth" to babies. I'm not into gender roles when it comes to determining what career someone is best suited for, or who should stay home to care for the kids, but when it comes to BIOLOGICAL processes, then YES, we need to respect the laws of nature.
Honestly, this story makes me sick. Can you imagine being a little girl, looking through your baby book, and realizing, "Hmmm, my mom didn't give birth to me, my 'DAD' did." Yeah, there's a recipe for a healthy life. /sarcasm.
And I agree, "he" is still a woman, so it's not really a "miracle" at all.
Yes, feminists are about choice, most definitely. And if he wants to live as a man, so be it (and i respect "his" choice to do so). But when you bring another innocent life into it, well, then, you have to start thinking of someone other than yourself. And this guy obviously doesn't understand that.
Uhmm...yeah, 'he's' really a woman- I don't see a 'miracle' here. Also- I wonder if they did 'in-vitro' or something. Interesting how they don't tell you that tid-bit of information...hmmm. I don't even know how they can qualify this as a miracle. I see these two women starving for attention and I really,really, hope they didn't do it for that (attention). I agree with you, Crystal, he (she) is not a man (in God's eyes). Thank you for sharing!
I saw some of that Oprah show, but had to turn it off because it was so disturbing. This woman had her breasts amputated because of her disturbed mind. If *she* wanted to have a child, and that is why she retained her ovary and uterus, than why would she amputate the means of nourishing her child? It make no sense.
Breasts do not make a woman a woman, either, as many women who have had mastectomies will agree.Having no breasts does not make you a man. She has a vagina and gets her period. She's a woman!
People who are so disturbed that they can't even accept what sex they are should not be having children.
-Zan
This is graphic, you may not want to publish it:
This lady became pregnant with a sperm donor. The couple shopped for a male donor and the partner injected him with the sperm. Just reinforces to me how wrong artificial insemination is. It was the woman's egg. Got this info from the Oprah show.
-Zan
All I can say about this story is SADNESS!
I have been avoiding Oprah for years, her "religion" has gotten so liberal and this story just shows how much. Sin is sin and we should love the sinner and hate the sin. That doesn't mean we should stick it on TV and glorify it, especially during the hours where young kids are home and seeing it. I heard about this story a few days ago and was sickened by it. That Oprah had it on her show saddens me, as that means this sort of thing is becoming more and more mainstream and acceptable to our society. What's next? What's sad is that so many of the modern churches are not taking a stand on this sort of thing. The United Methodist Church is allowing a transgendered pastor to continue preaching, some denominations allowing gay ministers....don't they read their Bibles anymore? Is it any wonder that so many conservative families are turning to home churching and other such options? Sorry about the rant, I'm just so sickened by the modern church not taking a stand on sin!
I realize you're a Christian so naturally you're going to look at this from a Christian perspective, but may I respectfully submit that Christ might not be the answer for everyone? Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. and even Christian non-believers probably wouldn't respond well to that sort of help but might be helped through another sort of guidance- psychiatric counseling, for example.
I do agree with the rest of what you said. I don't think it's right for a person who is obviously so messed up to inflict his/her problems on an innocent baby. What chance will that poor baby have for a normal life? And Christ certainly might be an answer for some, I just don't think it's the only answer.
PREACH ON SISTER!!!
ditto!!!!!!
I just can't stomach the whole thing. And why in the WORLD she says its a "miracle" when women have babies all the time.
So sick that the world thinks this is just the newest thing that they can be in awe over. Its just WRONG.....
Don't get me started on that one! I don't know why it's making news. This is just a poor disturbed woman having a baby. There are lots of those, unfortunately, so this one isn't any more 'miraculous' than any of the other poor babies born into homes that don't know Christ. It did cause me to pray specifically for these "parents" and that poor baby girl.
Jennie: Thanks for your comment.
While other religions teach that there are many ways to happiness, fulfillment, etc., Christianity stands alone in that it is the belief that there is only One Way--through Jesus Christ.
He is The Way, The Truth, and The Light. Without His saving grace, every person on the face of the earth will suffer eternal separation from God.
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
http://bible.cc/acts/4-12.htm
At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being plan selfish.
She doesn't want to be a woman.
She wants to be a man.
She wants to have a baby.
She wants etc.
In the end it is the same lie that is pulling America apart from the inside.
O dont get me started. I have been kicking the "I am a man, I just happen to be a pregnant man" around for days. It just hacks me off. It is so blatantly... I dont know what the word is. Something against God. Blasphemous maybe. It just outrages my husband. Actually, his response was kind of funny. (I had a HORRID preganancy...) DH said "anyone who wants to be pregnant is most definitely a woman cause men cant handle it" I secretly wished I could send that audio clip to Miss Thomas.
Anon that asked about "mixed" babies. Most often those babies are masculine when they go through puberty. It seesm there is still a ... genetic dominance of one gender over the other and As far as I know they are always sterile.
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil...."
In making it through the 5 YouTube videos on the Oprah episode, what is clearly portrayed is people speaking of and acting according to "feelings"...feelings of not being Biblically thankful to and ultimately honoring of God with the result being defrauding of one another and a child...and certainly not blessing others. Perversion and missing out on God's blessing is the result when hearts and feelings aren't aligned to the plumb of what God(the Way, Truth, and Life) says and means. Nothing new under the sun, really. The actions of those ladies reflect being deceived by choice(according to what the Bible teaches) ~ thinking they've climbed to the top of a mountain when really sin takes you deeper than you ever thought you would go and oft to stay longer than you ever could imagine with consequences not always solely for you alone. Because of Jesus ~ I pray, Lord willing, hearts He perfectly judges be changed to the praise of the glory of His grace.
Oprah's first syndicated show was about marrying the man or woman of "your" choice. All about "me" rather than "God"(similar to Oprah's own relationship choice)? In this recent episode about a woman desiring and trying to be a man but truly missing the Biblical mark, Oprah mentioned a book, A New Earth, that is the topic of book club discussion on her website. The author bio and book info are here: http://eckharttolle.com/a_new_earthShould anyone privy to and utilizing Biblical discernment be surprised the Oprah show hasn't really changed concerning flavor of spirit...and shouldn't it be very clear whether people have been and are being pointed to or away from Christ? The depth of depravity in topics have a greater transparency in looking online at episode topics. Nothing new under the sun. Make that Son.
I agree!
The whole media frenzy is based on an outrageous lie. This "man" is a woman. She can't change that even with surgery, and clearly some part of her still wants womanhood, though she tries to deny it by making childbearing a "human" desire rather than a female desire.
So yucky on so many levels. And you know the honest truth, I have been thinking about this, as well as in regards to Hollywood adoptions, and I think that it is far better for a child to be born to Christian parents and raised by them, no matter what material lack they have, than to be brought up in this corrupted, twisted, vile culture and be taught that it is OK. My husband lived through a famine and a war and severe poverty, and he agrees with me.
Amen Crystal! You are right on about what this woman needs. Thanks for posting this...I hadn't heard about it yet.
Jennifer B (who commented earlier), my sister has Turner's Syndrome and, you are right, she is still VERY MUCH a woman (although she cannot have children). Actually, many Turners Syndrome children live very long, happy lives--my sister is almost 32. The only "odd" thing about her is that she is very small.
I think when people are referring to children born "ambiguous" (I think that's the term), they mean babies born where you're not entirely sure which genitals they have or sometimes they have both. I have personally seen two of these babies at an orphanage in China and I've seen one born when I was a L&D nurse. This is usually the case of an enlarged clit*ris or extra small p*nis. Usually they do ultrasounds (for internal sex organs), lab tests for hormones, etc before determining for sure which sex they are. The point is, a p*nis or v*gina is not the only thing that makes you male or female (which is why that "man" in the story was still very much female--people are SO DUMB sometimes!). Sometimes babies develop a little funny (as with other things like cleft-palates), but they are STILL male or female, as God made them!!
...and everyone said...Amen!!
I am simply saddened as to what America (and the world) has become. Those of us who are trying to establish right from wrong are being criticized by the minority.
Sadly, instead of pastors and parents paving the way and being examples, the media is taking its place.
All I can say is "Come Lord Jesus Come!"
i used to be sooo liberal and now welll.....it hurts my head!!!and my heart!!!
She is a she, albeit an odd one at the moment....she is a she....i can wear i tiger costume, and i'm still a woman..etc...
the true miracle will be when God takes this little girls hand and cares for her and protects her through her life, even if her parents go against God, He will not forget her...
I hope He protects her from the media, from the bullying, keeps her whole and safe and happy....she will be dealt this lot and i hope she will come out the other end , happy and whole ...despite her parents' choices...
Celina in Canada
Actually, there is a pregnant man.
http://www.malepregnancy.com/science/
:(
I think all of it is awful.
I am a feminist and not a Christian. That being said, I'm confused that so many are so sickened by this. Two people in a committed, loving relationship want to raise a baby. I don't see a problem with that.
Most kids probably will never know that the father of this child was born a woman. If kids at school want to make fun of this child, they'll find a way anyway they can.
I do agree that it's odd that we're calling Beatie a "pregnant man." This is a pregnant transgendered person.
I also am confused about how feminism = not caring about the welfare of children. I care very deeply about children, and so do all of the feminists I know. Men and women's equality has only a positive effect on children's welfare. Who else but feminists care about children's healthcare? Who else cares about a living wage so that families can be valued again? We're the ones fighting for the welfare of the family.
The media will refer to this child as a miracle and a blessing. If the Duggar family were to anounce they were expecting another child all the media would have to say is that they are destroying the planet or something.
Annie: Thanks for sharing your viewpoint. Since you're not a Christian, I don't expect you to agree or even understand. But I'll answer anyway:
We're sickened because it is perverse--it goes against God's ordained order for the family and for women. Not to mention the fact that all of the testosterone unnaturally injected into that women cannot in any way be a healthy thing for this girl or that lauding her life as a science experiment is giving her life much dignity.
God created children to be born to a male and a female who are married. Any other way that a child is conceived is a perversion of God's ordained design for conception. Medical science can try all they want to distort, pervert, and mutilate God's design, but it will always take a man and a woman to create a human being.
Sodomy is sin. Period. It is perversion of God's design. And bringing a child into a perverse relationship is only further amplifying the problems.
I've written at length at how modern feminism destroys families; I've also seen it with my own very eyes.
A belief that me, myself, and I is center of everything and every decision will never be what is best for children. This belief is at the very heart and soul of feminism for feminism is the belief that a woman's right to do what is best for her is of the utmost importance.
If what is supposedly best for a woman means she tramples over her husband and she neglects her children so be it because-- according to feminists--this is what is "best for the woman."
Feminism destroys marriages because, according to feminism, a woman should put herself, her interests, and her needs first. This is only setting up one's self and one's marriage for ruin and severe lack of harmony.
Contrary to what feminism espouses, a Biblical marriage is one where the husband and wife both seek to lay down their lives for each other. They put the needs of the other first--before their own needs.
And there is a lot more at stake than wages and healthcare when it comes to fighting for the welfare of the family. Especially when modern culture doesn't even have a definition for what a "family" is anymore. If feminism were truly doing much to build up families, why are families in the greatest disrepair ever?
Only in God's Word can we find the true answers--that of laying down our lives for one another, giving up ourselves to train and raise the next generation, throwing our lives into nurturing, teaching, and equipping our children to be strong Christians, loving spouses, caring parents, wise stewards of resources, honorable citizens, etc.--to impact this world for the glory of God.
Happy Feminist checking in here, amidst all my work craziness.
When I hear Crystal asking whether it is fair to treat the unborn baby girl as a science experiment, I wonder who exactly is thinking of her in this dehumanizing way? And if someone is thinking this baby as a freak or a "science experiment," shouldn't we be blaming that person rather than this baby's parents?
I don't think the parents believe their child is just a science experiment. According to People Magazine, they went this route because they trust themselves to carry the child more than they would trust a surrogate. Mr. Beatie does not have to rely on someone outside the family to take all the correct vitamins, get all the necessary check-ups and care for the baby's health. He can make sure himself that it all gets done because he is the one carrying the child. (And his wife can't do it because she is older and/or has medical issues.)
Long story short -- I am not really disturbed by any of this. It looks like the baby will have two dedicated parents who truly want her. I am not sure why this would be "confusing" to the child, or why it is a bad thing for a child to have unique circumstances in her life. No two families are alike and we all have to learn about the things that make us and our families different from others. And finally, it doesn't matter to me whether Mr. Beatie is categorized as a man or as a woman or some third category. If his preference is to be considered a man, I am happy to respect that.
Bottom line -- I don't see the harm in what this couple is doing, and in fact, I see a lot of good in it.
Crystal,
I appreciate you taking time out to answer some of my concerns. I disagree with your definition of feminism completely. It simply is the idea that men and women (i.e. all people) are equal and deserve equal opportunities. As a feminist, I do not put my desires and self in the forefront at all. I make decisions with my husband and we take things on together. We're equal partners, and put each other and our families first, not ourselves. One day, when we have children, they will be of utmost importance to us.
That includes having a stay at home parent (likely me). Many, many feminists feel the same way.
I am not arguing that Christians break down the family in anyway; on the contrary, I believe you all put family as a top priority, and I respect that. The people I find who don't put family first often don't identify as feminists. These are people who care more about material wealth, etc., than human life. And I 100% disagree with that philosophy.
I just wanted to let you all know that there are many women and men who identify as feminists and DO care most about family! Don't simply listen to old Gloria Steinem quotes to take all of your cues about what feminism is.
Annie:
For the record, I don't base my beliefs of feminism on old quotes. Rather, they are based upon what feminists themselves have written on this very blog or written me in emails. And we're not just talking about a select few--I've interacted with more feminists than I can count and very, very few have done anything but belittle my beliefs and life choices.
I have met some really nice feminists, but by and large they are usually extremely degrading towards me, my beliefs, and the lifestyle I live (which is one of the major reasons I have to moderate comments here--you'd hate to see the ugliness which never makes it through moderation).
I've been dragged through the mud countless times on major feminist blogs. And I'm not just talking about people strongly disagreeing with me, I'm referring to these websites going so far as to wish death and worse upon myself, my husband, and my children.
So, all that to say, while feminists might say they support a woman's right to choose or that they want what is best for a family and so forth, by and large, they have shown by their actions and words towards me and my beliefs that they are about an agenda. An agenda which says that a woman needs to "do something", "be someone", "find herself", and put her interests first--at the expense of whoever or whatever. That being a stay-at-home wife and mother is stupid, brainless work. That choosing to submit to, love, and respect my husband as my head is crazy, bizarre, and idiotic. Nevermind the fact that I'm willingly and joyfully choosing this for myself.
I used to think feminism was dead or dying. Then I started blogging. Out of the woodwork came a host of feminists and I learned feminism was alive and kicking. And as I was being constantly taunted and berated for just living my life, I started taking notice. And it was then that I began to research feminism and its effects on our culture. And that's when I first realized just how dangerous, deadly, and destructive it is.
And I've also come to believe just how unBiblical modern feminism is. It's been sugar-coated to be a lot of different things, but that doesn't make it anymore in line with God's Word.
This world is crying out for hope, for fulfillment, for true love, for something more than the mess of things this world has to offer--only in Christ can we find true Hope, true Love, true Freedom, true Fulfillment, and true Forgiveness.
Thank you! Well said. It's so disheartening to see the depravity and warped mindset becoming more common in this world. On another note, the day before this story aired, Oprah interviewed the families involved in the mistaken identity of the 2 ladies from Taylor University. These families were a wonderful testimony to the love and forgiveness only available through God. They openly spoke of the Lord's forgiveness and many heard. Many Thanks to them for their testimony! Thanks to you as well for your great blogs (I'm hooked on moneysavingmom)
Taunya in Illinois
mrs taft: that site disturbed me greatly when i first saw it, but it turns out it was all just "art". it was a hoax, and apparently it happened quite some time ago. http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa100400a.htm
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/birth/birth.html
Hot topic huh?
Labels make life difficult. Feminism can mean so many things and cover such a broad spectrum of beliefs and convictions. I guess believing that women should have the right to an education and a voice in society makes me a feminist of sorts (at least by archaic standards, I know issues have changed with the times).
It's always hard to discuss any topic "fruitfully" (meaning in the spirit and productively making headway through communication) when labels like "feminist" are thrown around generically.
Crystal, for the record I agree with you on so many levels (headship, submission, women's created and God ordained gifts and roles, etc), but I think that the idea "live and let live" is rather biblical and I am okay to follow my convictions but not get outraged when the world doesn't. What can we expect after all?
If I want the "world" to respect my right "to live" according to my convictions, I need to "respect" in a "let it go" sense, non believers rights to the same.
For me the buck stops when it is THE CHURCH and professing believers engaging in this kind of activity, then for sure, I'm all for calling people out on where their lives don't line up with God's standard, but why should we expect any different from the world who doesn't believe in this God, much less His standard?
Since you're not a Christian, I don't expect you to agree or even understand.
I love both of your blogs, Crystal, and I read them every day. I've never commented before, but I felt moved to try to say something on this subject. I don't consider myself a feminist and I am an active and devoted Christian.
I also agree with Annie's view. I was deeply hurt by the tone of this discussion, and this is the first time I have run into this attitude on either of your blogs. I don't mean any harm, but this negative and hurtful attitude towards homosexuals and other "outsiders" is the reason why our churches have so much trouble reaching our homosexual and trans-gendered brothers and sisters in Christ. They feel rejected by the Christian faith, and from the comments here, I can imagine why.
Thanks for all the good work you do--your advice and comments have always been an inspiration, and I certainly won't stop reading your blogs. I just wanted to put a word on here for the Christians who don't share the same viewpoint. I don't believe that any Christian or denomination of Christianity has a monopoly on truth or the right to judge others; those belong to God alone. I believe that we are called to carry the "true love" of Christ into the world, to all of God's created children. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts--
Iyo
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
Matthew 7:1-2
LYO: Thanks for sharing.
While we have many non-Christians who read here (and we're glad to have you all here!), I am not here to tickle their ears. I am here to build up and encourage Christian women and, at times, to confront this sin-sick culture.
And, dare I say it? I do believe we are called to judge--to "judge righteous judgment". To speak the truth in love. To preach Christ and Him crucified.
We are not called to tolerate sin, to sugar-coat perversion, or to gloss over immorality. We are called to be salt and light in this sin-darkened world.
Homosexuality and gender reassignment surgeries are a perversion of God's design. And I do not believe that anyone who is a Christian can also be involved in this immorality. Nor do I believe that Christians should accept those involved in this sin with open arms. We can show them Christ's love but that also means we must speak the truth to them. And the truth is that they are living in sin and perversion.
If you were asleep in a burning building, would the loving thing be for me to let you sleep so as not to stir you while the building burned down? No, you'd want me to come beat your door down until you woke up so that you could be rescued. The loving thing to do would be to wake you up from your slumber so you could escape imminent destruction.
And so if someone who claimed the name of Christ was also living in perversion, I believe the loving thing to do would be to wake them up from their sinful slumber by speaking the truth--even if it meant that they were offended. Many were offended with Christ, too, because He called out their hypocrisy and their lack of love for God.
Yes, I know these are strong words, but if Christians cannot stand up and call sin for what it is, who will? We cannot stand idly by while the wicked ever increase in wickedness. We must take a stand for what is Truth.
That said, the point of my original post was to not only speak what I believe to be the truth found in God's Word, but also to call Christians to action and prayer. Let us pray and intercede for this woman, the woman she is living with, and this little girl. But for God's saving grace, that would be me or any of us.
Thanks for commenting on this Crystal - I completely agree with you. This is 2 lesbians living together and 1 of them (a woman) having a baby. The media can twist this story around all they want, but that is the bottom line.
Bravo!!! Bravo!!! Great comment Crystal!! Sin is Sin period and we are not to hid our heads in the sand about it. We are to show sin to other in love...it's one of the most loving things we can do for a person. We are called to preach God's truth to the world. When we call a person's sin for what it is, we are showing them true love. We want them to have the advantage of salvation, what greater love is that?
I agree. I think that is just so strange and wrong. That poor child won't know what's right.
Crystal,
I am just shocked and horrified that someone would wish ill on you, your husband, or your children. That's completely uncalled for and truly awful. I don't agree with you here, but to each her own. It's certainly no cause for such hateful words.
And you're right, I've met some feminists that I wholeheartedly disagree with, but I'm sure you've met some Christians you're not totally in line with, either. It doesn't make me happy that those feminists are out there dragging the philosophy through the mud.
In any case, I'm always happy to find new blogs to read, and yours is very interesting. Thanks for chatting with me.
these two lesbians are the ones who are exploiting this child first and foremost. they went national for MONEY and FAME. Oprah is a new age "pusher" who has way too much influence unfortunately. I never watch her show, but it makes me sick to see the way women in that audience would kiss her feet. I quit watching her show many years ago, maybe say 20 or so. I dont remember the details of the show, but it was some controversy about christians and I dont know what else. Anyway, A teenage girl was giving her christian views and Oprah so berated this girl that she was in tears. Since that many years ago I have not watched her show. I think people like her will someday have to come to an understanding. "Every knee shall bow and every toungue confess that Jesus is lord"
You know, when I first heard about this I wasn't surprised at all. Isn't that sad! The world is just so crazy that something this odd doesn't make one flinch. I guess to each his own and I agree everyone needs Christ in their life or they are lost forever. But, how am I supposed to explain to my children that this "man" is having a baby?
People need to realize the world isn't just about them and they should have more consideration when it comes to these things and trying to get publicity. I certainly don't push my thoughts and views on religious matters down people's throats - don't sell your story on this unusual situation down mine. The media is so much to blame in this for letting it get the attention like it has. ...
Sorry for the rant, but I'm trying to live my life, and raise my kids to love and honor Christ and with these situations it just makes it a little more challenging as a parent (like we don't have enough to worry about!).
I have met some really nice feminists, but by and large they are usually extremely degrading towards me, my beliefs, and the lifestyle I live . . .
I hope I'm on your list of "really nice" feminists!
I think the problem is that we (feminists and conservative Christians) strongly disapprove of each other's beliefs, at least as they pertain to women. Christians "judge righteous judgment." But, as a feminist, I judge too.
Inevitably, we are going to be offended at each other's judgments of our core beliefs. Conservative women are offended because they interpret what we say (sometimes correctly) to mean that they are being taken advantage of. Feminists are offended because we are told that there is only one correct way to live our lives, and that we need to have a male leader in charge of our families because we are too gullible and naturally submissive to lead or even play an equal role in managing our own families.
Death threats are obviously beyond the pale (and, sadly enough, feminist bloggers get plenty too). But some degree of harsh criticism on both sides is inevitable because we are on diametrically opposite sides of so man issues pertaining to how we women should live our lives.
While I like to preserve my relationships with women who disagree, ultimately I don't think that offense on either side is what matters (unless there is illegal conduct such as a death threat). I think ultimately it is the ideas that count even if sometimes behavior on both sides is less than ideal.
Another issue that I wanted to point out: I was actually kind of surprised that feminism was brought into the initial post since the post was about a transsexual and there was no particular indication that this transsexual father is a feminist.
Transsexualism doesn't necessarily have too much to do with feminism, although I can certainly understand why people would make that connection. I don't think transsexualism is a very well understood phenomenon. From what little I know about it, transsexuals often have a deep sense from a very early age that they are a member of the opposite sex. I have seen it described as an almost physical phenomenon, in which the child expects or thinks of himself (or herself) as having the body parts of the opposite sex. This "gender dysphoria" may even have some biological basis, maybe in the brain. People with this condition are not necessarily feminists, and some may even believe strongly in traditional gender roles.
Feminism is about ensuring dignity, autonomy, and equality of opportunity for all people regardless of gender. Transsexualism is about changing one's gender. These are not the same thing.
In fact, there has been a lot of tension among some streams of feminism and the transsexual community. This tension can be boiled down as follows: Some feminists believe that gender should be an irrelevant or unimportant category. Transsexuals on the other hand implicitly believe that gender is very important -- otherwise they wouldn't go through extreme measures to change their gender. Transsexuals often believe that the genders have certain inherent qualities -- a belief that is contrary to what most of us feminists believe.
Personally, I tend to the belief that the sexes are more alike than we are different, although there may be some differences across the sexes. I feel I have just as much in common with the men in my life as with the women. I am just as ambitious and competitive and assertive as the men I work with. But at the same time, I am extremely attached to my female body. I am wholly female in that I am wholly comfortable with my female body, my reproductive system, and my female appearance. If someone offered to turn me into a man, I would respond with an emphatic "NO!" But some people clearly are not comfortable with the bodies into which they were born, and while we may not fully understand it yet, I don't feel that transsexualism threatens my feminism at all.
Sorry for the long lecture. My main point is that transsexualism is not a product of feminism and may not even always be in sync with feminism, although many (but not all) feminists support it.
But, how am I supposed to explain to my children that this "man" is having a baby?
Sorry to comment again but this question struck a chord because I was just talking with a friend who asked a similar question with regard to gay marriage.
I think kids are pretty smart. We all have to grow up learning that there are people who live in ways we don't agree with. Depending on the age of the child, you say something like, "There was a woman who wished she was a man. She took some medicine and had an operation so that she would look like a man. But she could still have a baby and she decided to do that." Then depending on your beliefs you can say, "I think that's wonderful because . . ." or "It is a bad thing to change from a woman to a man because . . ."
When I was a little girl, I was very upset to learn that women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia or travel without a husband's permission. I was upset to learn that women were considered second class citizens through most of recorded history and still in many parts of the world and even in the U.S. But that's reality and kids need to learn that the world isn't always structured the way and their families think is best. It was hard for me to hear that, but the truth is the truth.
HF: Yes, you are definitely one of the handful of nice feminists I've met. :)
I don't mind feminists disagreeing with me--in fact, I expect them to!--but I am bothered by their hypocrisy in saying that they are all about "a woman's right to choose" and yet they find great delight in dragging my beliefs and choices through the mud. I know that not every single feminist does this, but by and large this has been my experience.
However, I really don't think I can expect much different from those who claim to have no moral absolutes. Or whose beliefs are not rooted in God's Word but rather in humanism.
Secondly, I personally do not blame feminism entirely for people who try to pervert their God-given sex through surgery, I blame sin. Sin and selfishness is at the root of this. Modern feminism would believe pretty straightforward that men and women are no different (which is a dangerous belief again rooted in humanism) so this belief can in no way help those who try to "change" who God has created them to be. But I also understand where you are coming from in saying that there are differences in the viewpoints (Hey! Did you just hear that? I somewhat agreed with you?!).
My concern was that I was only seeing the dignity of this little baby girl being pulled from her and no hearing anyone expressing how wrong this was. That's why I brought up feminism in the first place.
Feminism has not and will never be the answer. Only in Christ can we find true Freedom and true liberation. And it's only in Him that we truly have worth and dignity.
But feminists do believe that women should be free to do what they want,when they want, without anyone telling them not to do it (even altering their bodies). Which, to me, is a very selfish outlook. That's one of my biggest problems with feminism...that it's really a selfish belief system. It teaches that you should look after yourself. Compaired to Christianity which promotes that we should place others before ourselves. I know that not all feminists are totally selfish people, but to me, that's what feminism represents.
The person has changed the body that God created for her for selfish reasons. And now, for selfish reasons she is bring a child into the world that will be raised to grown into a selfish person. That's one of the biggest problems in our world today. We are taught/told to look after #1 (ourselves). Schools put too much emphasis on self-esteem and not enough emphasis on caring for others. Children are praised for their physical appearance or for superficial things and don't receive praise for the things that REALLY matter.